is a passive pre amp better than a tube pre amp?

[Holmz]

I would say in your case with an AI tube preamp, probably not. A lot of distortion from a preamp like that, which will most likely "sound better".
Your query is diffuse and impossible to really answer.

What leads you to believe there is a lot of distortion in that preamp?

Audible Illusions Modulus 3A preamplifier Measurements part 2 | Stereophile.com

The change in THD+noise with output level using a 1kHz signal is shown in fig.4. Both the phono (top) and line-stage (bottom) performances are shown. The distortion and crosstalk measurements of figs.2 and 3 for the line-stage were taken at an input of 100mV, which results in a distortion just...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Davey]

What leads you to believe there is a lot of distortion in that preamp?

Audible Illusions Modulus 3A preamplifier Measurements part 2 | Stereophile.com

The change in THD+noise with output level using a 1kHz signal is shown in fig.4. Both the phono (top) and line-stage (bottom) performances are shown. The distortion and crosstalk measurements of figs.2 and 3 for the line-stage were taken at an input of 100mV, which results in a distortion just...

www.stereophile.com

My own measurements and repair of a couple of those preamps.
A lot of distortion, relative to a passive preamp......which is the context here.

 

[olds1959special]

My own measurements and repair of a couple of those preamps.
A lot of distortion, relative to a passive preamp......which is the context here.

Isn’t it mostly second order harmonics?

 

[Holmz]

My own measurements and repair of a couple of those preamps.
A lot of distortion, relative to a passive preamp......which is the context here.

Ok… do you have a measurement plot?

 

[Davey]

Ok… do you have a measurement plot?

'Got one you're having a problem with? Do you need a schematic or anything?

 

[solderdude]

Isn’t it mostly second order harmonics?

With harmonic distortion that also comes inter-modulation distortion which is NOT harmonic and when not masked will not be 'harmonic'.
No distortion or distortion below audible thresholds (that is the key) simply is always better when the goal is to accurately reproduce that what has been recorded.
And with distortion is meant linear and non-linear distortion.

 

[olds1959special]

With harmonic distortion that also comes inter-modulation distortion which is NOT harmonic and when not masked will not be 'harmonic'.
No distortion or distortion below audible thresholds (that is the key) simply is always better when the goal is to accurately reproduce that what has been recorded.
And with distortion is meant linear and non-linear distortion.

When I turn up my pre-amp and turn down my DAC I hear more distortion. I'm wondering if I'll be happy with a cleaner pre. Like this maybe: https://www.schiit.com/products/saga_2 which has the option of working passively or with gain. Also it has a remote so I wouldn't have to control volume with my DAC.

Why do some people like tube distortion though?

 

[solderdude]

Why do some people like tube distortion though?

Hard to say why, the most logical explanation is the 'knowing' part.

It is impossible to predict what 'works' for you (or anyone else).

 

[Joe Smith]

When I turn up my pre-amp and turn down my DAC I hear more distortion. I'm wondering if I'll be happy with a cleaner pre. Like this maybe: https://www.schiit.com/products/saga_2 which has the option of working passively or with gain. Also it has a remote so I wouldn't have to control volume with my DAC.

Why do some people like tube distortion though?

The Saga 2 is a really nice preamp. It does not have very high gain, even in the 3rd setting. But the volume control is superb. I am currently using it and the matching Gjallarhorn amp in my bedroom system, where I don't need a lot of volume.

The Fosi P4 is a cheaper solution that also has high specs and a three-way gain setting (but no passive mode, and the volume control has less control for softer levels than the Saga).

 

[olds1959special]

With harmonic distortion that also comes inter-modulation distortion which is NOT harmonic and when not masked will not be 'harmonic'.
No distortion or distortion below audible thresholds (that is the key) simply is always better when the goal is to accurately reproduce that what has been recorded.
And with distortion is meant linear and non-linear distortion.

To avoid listening to distortion, I've hooked up my DAC directly to my amps and stashed my tube preamp.

 

[solderdude]

Most distortion is in the recording and the speakers.

Then followed by 'tube gear that has a deliberate sound signature'.
The last things one would have to worry about is 'regular' DAC's and (half) decent (pre-)amplifiers.
Things one does not have to worry about are cables, passive attenuators (< 10k ohm) and 'mains quality'.

 

[olds1959special]

With harmonic distortion that also comes inter-modulation distortion which is NOT harmonic and when not masked will not be 'harmonic'.
No distortion or distortion below audible thresholds (that is the key) simply is always better when the goal is to accurately reproduce that what has been recorded.
And with distortion is meant linear and non-linear distortion.

I found a buyer for my tube pre-amp and will be replacing it with a Fosi P4.

 

[wadude]

This is a passive I used between an AirPort Express and Dynaco MKIV amps. The Fostex PC/1e was modified with a Chinese DACT-type step attenuator and the total cost was $30.00. It also functioned as a 3.5mm to RCA splitter. In every way it absolutely smoked the PAS2 it replaced.


Edit: That Fosi P4 looks great!

 

[solderdude]

The good thing about the P4 is the simple (old-fashion) tone control it has, 3 inputs, remote control, low distortion (which does not seem to be determined by the replaceable output buffer op-amp) and price.

 

[pantera_rapida]

I had the opportunity to borrow a passive pre-amp last year. Pre-amp I was using at the time is a Primaluna Dialog Premium tube pre-amp, and I was quite happy with it. I plug in the borrowed Bent Audio TAP-X (with remote and digital volume display, RCA only) and well...I couldn't go back.

I switched them back and forth, and the TAP-X is just better. Everything sounds more natural, the music comes at me in a non-fatiguing way, I listen for hours, and I get even more detail than with the PL. I was able to buy the TAP-X.

The only issue I encountered was my phono pre-amp didn't match up with the pre-amp impedance, so records sounded detailed but missing a bit of beef to them. I emailed John Chapman (the pre-amp builder) and he worked with PJL Electronics (who built that phono pre-amp). Pat from PJL figured out how to match it up and sent me a Fusion model, and it works great.

But my CD player, Tuner and DAC all work fine. I used to run a pair of NAD 2200 power amps, but I now use a pair of Denon POA-S10 amps and they sound excellent.

 

[pantera_rapida]

One question that's come up is whether something like an Audio Note or ANK tube dac will work well with a passive pre-amp, or if it needs more gain as provided from a non-passive pre-amp?

 

[Chrispy]

I may order a cheap passive volume control that I'm going to try in between my dac and power amps. Will it sound better than my tube pre amp?

What is good about a tube pre-amp to begin with let alone odd ways to implement a pre-amp?

 

[olds1959special]

What is good about a tube pre-amp to begin with let alone odd ways to implement a pre-amp?

I’m done with tubes.

 

[Philbo King]

Passive preamp? A wonderful oxymoron...

 

[egellings]

Passive preamp? A wonderful oxymoron...

Agree. What amplifies in them?