I’m curious what the measurement-oriented crowd here thinks about this because a discussion on AVS recently went way further than I ever expected.
I posted on avsforum that I believe I can do just as good as a professional calibrator charging $5500. I never said professional calibration has no value, nor did I say anyone can do it themselves without any study.
A $5,500 two-day calibration can absolutely improve a system, particularly for an owner who lacks the knowledge, measurement equipment, time, or interest to do the work personally.
The disagreement started when another AVS member told me that by saying I could achieve results “just as good” myself, I was insulting highly trained professionals and that I would probably: “never know how good your system could potentially sound” without hiring one.
That eventually resulted in a well-known professional calibrator, Adam Pelz, whom does training and beta testing for Trinnov, is a Trinnov dealer, owns Bespoke Cinemas per his linked-in, sending me several unsolicited PM's describing his service.
The $5,500 calibration process
Adam provided a very detailed description of his two-day calibration process. It seems very thorough, in case I've missed something, you can see his description in PM 2.png that is attached:
I have no problem saying that sounds like a thorough calibration process to be fair and honest.
What I question is the leap from that to saying a knowledgeable owner cannot achieve an equally good result themselves, or implying that other competent calibrators charging much less must somehow be “starving.” I would have no problem finding a calibrator near me for $1,500 or less.
Of course, his public rebuttal is sarcastic, and then in his PM he twists what I actually said. I never claimed someone was going to fly across the country, pay for airfare, hotels, rental cars, meals, and spend two days at my house for under $1,500 total. I said I can find competent calibration services near me in that price range. Those are obviously two very different things.
What is most interesting is after his check list, he talks about his subjective part of the professional process.
So after what I would have considered a thorough technical process, he then begins Day 2 by listening again to make sure he is still as happy with the result as the previous night. But once additional calibration changes are being made according to whether particular music sounds “great,” subjective judgment clearly becomes part of the final result, per his PM that is attached.
There can obviously be a technically well-integrated system followed by subjective voicing according to preference. But once preference is part of the optimization criterion, there cannot simultaneously be only one objectively correct answer. And if you have to revisit voicing subjectively, I'd be rethinking what target curve I'm using.
There's other finer points to consider: the owner has the time advantage.
This is probably the biggest reason I believe I can do as well or better in my own room. A visiting calibrator gets two days, it's not like they can order additional bass traps or subwoofers during that time if they can't fix a room mode.
I didn't start with eight subwoofers. I started with two, then four, then five, and continued changing and improving my system over the coarse of years; some of that is because I'm middle class so had to spread out my purchases. I also learned about room acoustics and added bass traps, etc...
To his credit, Adam specifically said he evaluates the room and makes recommendations for improvements, but also acknowledged that actually addressing these types of physical changes isn't something he can accomplish during a two-day visit as he'd have to order subs, etc... He will move speakers and subs though.
Adam's admission in PM and lack of commercial interest disclosure on his posts.
This is a secondary issue worth mentioning, but I really like how ASR makes it clear who is a dealer, industry insider, etc... Adam Pelz goes by applez and all that is on his profile is "Premium Member."
Of course if you read than one of his posts, you can figure out he's a dealer and industry insider. Per his linked-in, Adam owns Bespoke Cinemas and Integration, which Trinnov itself lists as a Trinnov dealer.
In his first PM he wrote:
“I only began posting after some manufacturers asked me to be a voice of reason, as they chose not to maintain a direct presence on a public forum”
Nothing wrong with that inherently, I guess, but I like audiosciencereview much better.
But I do think there is a meaningful difference between an unaffiliated owner saying: “You really need to hire a professional to get the best from your Trinnov" versus someone who charges $5500 to quoting and PM'ing me.
One other comment that surprised me was in his last PM he states:
“Despite this being a largely DIY community, 99% have a marginal understanding of basic acoustics” and: “I almost never get a single response, as it is beyond their knowledge.”
To be completely fair, he immediately said those people: “aren't stupid by any means”
That philosophy is pretty much the opposite of why I participate in enthusiast forums though. I think knowledgeable people should help other owners learn this stuff.
I do agree that professional calibration has value if you don't understand measurements, are short on time, etc... I'm just not sure if you should go the $5,500 route, especially if you plan to add more subs later... then what, you have to pay again?!?
My main disagreement is with the idea that hiring a particular professional at all is necessary to reach the best performance available from a Trinnov system, which has a fairly decent auto-calibration system called Optimizer, which Adam says he uses in his PMs?
Clearly my statement triggered Adam, but is a technically competent owner saying, “I can do this just as well myself,” really somehow insulting to professionals? Presumably it was based on the first two PMs. I didn't even respond to his first one. I responded once after the second, then he responded again. I didn't answer and let him have the last word... however, hours later he started quoting my posts publicly again.
I actually didn't see his new posts quoting me until the next day, and I posted the attached, now-deleted post that I thought was a very fair technical rebuttal. At least my ban from the Trinnov thread is only temporary lol. Go figure. Having an end user temporarily banned from the a DIY Trinnov thread for my rebuttal, while the industry professional goes back and quotes my posts after I literally let him have the last word in his PMs, which honestly came across as pretty condescending...
Legal Dislaimers
This post represents my own opinions, but I've tried to be objective and fair in how I've presented everything. I've shared the full PM exchange, and users can decide for themselves.
I also don't want to drag ASR into someone else's controversy. I have a lot of respect for Amir, especially as a fellow EE and all the work he does to educate users, and I appreciate him clarifying the policy before I posted anything. If Amir ever wants to independently verify any of this, I'm happy to provide whatever screenshots, timestamps, or even access to my AVSForum account so he can log-in himself to confirm that I've represented the exchange accurately.
I'm also not trying to attack a professional who's simply trying to make a living. But when a business reaches out to you through unsolicited PMs discussing and defending their paid service, I think it's fair for those messages to be part of the discussion. I would not post private messages from an ordinary end user.
I posted on avsforum that I believe I can do just as good as a professional calibrator charging $5500. I never said professional calibration has no value, nor did I say anyone can do it themselves without any study.
A $5,500 two-day calibration can absolutely improve a system, particularly for an owner who lacks the knowledge, measurement equipment, time, or interest to do the work personally.
The disagreement started when another AVS member told me that by saying I could achieve results “just as good” myself, I was insulting highly trained professionals and that I would probably: “never know how good your system could potentially sound” without hiring one.
That eventually resulted in a well-known professional calibrator, Adam Pelz, whom does training and beta testing for Trinnov, is a Trinnov dealer, owns Bespoke Cinemas per his linked-in, sending me several unsolicited PM's describing his service.
The $5,500 calibration process
Adam provided a very detailed description of his two-day calibration process. It seems very thorough, in case I've missed something, you can see his description in PM 2.png that is attached:
verifying installation and connectionsnear-field speaker measurementsindividual-driver measurements when something looks wrongpolarity verificationbaseline frequency-response measurementsroom dimensions and placement analysisSpeaker Boundary Interference Response (SBIR)modal analysissubwoofer optimizationseat-to-seat consistencyPEQ and other DSP workspatial averagingcoherence and transfer-function measurementsrunning the room-correction systemindependently verifying the correction afterwardcrossover optimizationall-pass filters where appropriatetime alignmentlevel matchingacoustical phase matchingbuilding multiple listening presetsextensive listening afterwardI have no problem saying that sounds like a thorough calibration process to be fair and honest.
What I question is the leap from that to saying a knowledgeable owner cannot achieve an equally good result themselves, or implying that other competent calibrators charging much less must somehow be “starving.” I would have no problem finding a calibrator near me for $1,500 or less.
Of course, his public rebuttal is sarcastic, and then in his PM he twists what I actually said. I never claimed someone was going to fly across the country, pay for airfare, hotels, rental cars, meals, and spend two days at my house for under $1,500 total. I said I can find competent calibration services near me in that price range. Those are obviously two very different things.
What is most interesting is after his check list, he talks about his subjective part of the professional process.
So after what I would have considered a thorough technical process, he then begins Day 2 by listening again to make sure he is still as happy with the result as the previous night. But once additional calibration changes are being made according to whether particular music sounds “great,” subjective judgment clearly becomes part of the final result, per his PM that is attached.
There can obviously be a technically well-integrated system followed by subjective voicing according to preference. But once preference is part of the optimization criterion, there cannot simultaneously be only one objectively correct answer. And if you have to revisit voicing subjectively, I'd be rethinking what target curve I'm using.
There's other finer points to consider: the owner has the time advantage.
This is probably the biggest reason I believe I can do as well or better in my own room. A visiting calibrator gets two days, it's not like they can order additional bass traps or subwoofers during that time if they can't fix a room mode.
I didn't start with eight subwoofers. I started with two, then four, then five, and continued changing and improving my system over the coarse of years; some of that is because I'm middle class so had to spread out my purchases. I also learned about room acoustics and added bass traps, etc...
To his credit, Adam specifically said he evaluates the room and makes recommendations for improvements, but also acknowledged that actually addressing these types of physical changes isn't something he can accomplish during a two-day visit as he'd have to order subs, etc... He will move speakers and subs though.
Adam's admission in PM and lack of commercial interest disclosure on his posts.
This is a secondary issue worth mentioning, but I really like how ASR makes it clear who is a dealer, industry insider, etc... Adam Pelz goes by applez and all that is on his profile is "Premium Member."
Of course if you read than one of his posts, you can figure out he's a dealer and industry insider. Per his linked-in, Adam owns Bespoke Cinemas and Integration, which Trinnov itself lists as a Trinnov dealer.
In his first PM he wrote:
“I only began posting after some manufacturers asked me to be a voice of reason, as they chose not to maintain a direct presence on a public forum”
Nothing wrong with that inherently, I guess, but I like audiosciencereview much better.
But I do think there is a meaningful difference between an unaffiliated owner saying: “You really need to hire a professional to get the best from your Trinnov" versus someone who charges $5500 to quoting and PM'ing me.
One other comment that surprised me was in his last PM he states:
“Despite this being a largely DIY community, 99% have a marginal understanding of basic acoustics” and: “I almost never get a single response, as it is beyond their knowledge.”
To be completely fair, he immediately said those people: “aren't stupid by any means”
That philosophy is pretty much the opposite of why I participate in enthusiast forums though. I think knowledgeable people should help other owners learn this stuff.
I do agree that professional calibration has value if you don't understand measurements, are short on time, etc... I'm just not sure if you should go the $5,500 route, especially if you plan to add more subs later... then what, you have to pay again?!?
My main disagreement is with the idea that hiring a particular professional at all is necessary to reach the best performance available from a Trinnov system, which has a fairly decent auto-calibration system called Optimizer, which Adam says he uses in his PMs?
Clearly my statement triggered Adam, but is a technically competent owner saying, “I can do this just as well myself,” really somehow insulting to professionals? Presumably it was based on the first two PMs. I didn't even respond to his first one. I responded once after the second, then he responded again. I didn't answer and let him have the last word... however, hours later he started quoting my posts publicly again.
I actually didn't see his new posts quoting me until the next day, and I posted the attached, now-deleted post that I thought was a very fair technical rebuttal. At least my ban from the Trinnov thread is only temporary lol. Go figure. Having an end user temporarily banned from the a DIY Trinnov thread for my rebuttal, while the industry professional goes back and quotes my posts after I literally let him have the last word in his PMs, which honestly came across as pretty condescending...
Legal Dislaimers
This post represents my own opinions, but I've tried to be objective and fair in how I've presented everything. I've shared the full PM exchange, and users can decide for themselves.
I also don't want to drag ASR into someone else's controversy. I have a lot of respect for Amir, especially as a fellow EE and all the work he does to educate users, and I appreciate him clarifying the policy before I posted anything. If Amir ever wants to independently verify any of this, I'm happy to provide whatever screenshots, timestamps, or even access to my AVSForum account so he can log-in himself to confirm that I've represented the exchange accurately.
I'm also not trying to attack a professional who's simply trying to make a living. But when a business reaches out to you through unsolicited PMs discussing and defending their paid service, I think it's fair for those messages to be part of the discussion. I would not post private messages from an ordinary end user.
5500USD seems excessive though. I can understand the price if they fly across the country, but not much point in that if local Trinnov consultants are available.
