Is 13inches from the back wall enough for Polk R200 speakers ?

[Seany]

I'm kind of new to this hobby. I currently have the ELAC Debut Reference DBR62 and I like them, but I'd like to get another pair of speakers. Anyway 13" is the furthest I can have any speaker pushed out from the back wall. I don't want to buy them if the 13" is not enough for these speakers to sound normally. One of the reasons I'm asking is because I watched a video review from A-Robinson about the Polk R200 and pretty much emphasized these speakers need pretty decent space. He said he had to move them about 30" from the wall and the mid-range improved. If you think I should avoid the R200's would any of these below that are on my short list be a much better fit for my spacing needs ? Thanks

ELAC Uni-Fi Reference UBR62
Wharfedale Diamond 12.2
Wharfedale EVO4.1

 

[Yasuo]

Generally speaking, 13" should be enough for any speaker. Regarding your example, if the mid range improved it means that the bass dropped (hence better perception of mids). For me this wall distance is more of a myth (or better said, if the speaker has any back port/s just don't mount it on wall - anything bigger than few inches will suffice). You have to find out at which frequency the reflections might be an issue.

 

[dshreter]

Do you have the ability to take measurements and EQ?

I also think the issue of being close to the wall is mostly a myth as well; having the speakers standing out with space provides a strong VISUAL impact that is hard to ignore.

However, distance to the walls does impact tonality, and being close to the wall especially reinforces bass. But if the bass becomes bloated, the best thing is just to EQ it down. Placing speakers close to the wall actually helps with problematic room modes that cannot be EQed away.

 

[Seany]

Generally speaking, 13" should be enough for any speaker. Regarding your example, if the mid range improved it means that the bass dropped (hence better perception of mids). For me this wall distance is more of a myth (or better said, if the speaker has any back port/s just don't mount it on wall - anything bigger than few inches will suffice). You have to find out at which frequency the reflections might be an issue.

"You have to find out at which frequency the reflections might be an issue."

I'm not into this stuff enough to know about measurements and graphs. I love listening to music but those details is just above my head. When I read reviews here I just skip to the bottom to see if the product is recommended or not. Ever since I upgraded from a sound bar to these current Elac's I'm like relistening to all my music. Thanks for your advice, I just don't want the bass to over shadow the mids or highs. I do know that after reading some speaker manuals it seems like speakers too close to side walls is a big issue, my side walls are like 4+ feet away.

 

[Seany]

Do you have the ability to take measurements and EQ?

I also think the issue of being close to the wall is mostly a myth as well; having the speakers standing out with space provides a strong VISUAL impact that is hard to ignore.

However, distance to the walls does impact tonality, and being close to the wall especially reinforces bass. But if the bass becomes bloated, the best thing is just to EQ it down. Placing speakers close to the wall actually helps with problematic room modes that cannot be EQed away.

Taking measurements,,,,,,no. It almost sounds like you guys are saying that pretty much any bookshelf with 13" of back wall space should be fine. The only thing is say I get a diff speaker and I set it up and I end up not liking it how will I know if it's due to to close placement to the back wall that is affecting the mids/highs or it could plainly be the sound signature that I don't like. I guess I know the answer to that question with proper measurements I would know which of the two is the culprit. But I'm just not that person.

 

[ZolaIII]

Those are back ported speakers so yes they like to be pulled out little more 16 to 25" and having back wall and corners done with absorbers also helps (the most regarding acoustical treatment).

 

[dshreter]

Taking measurements,,,,,,no. It almost sounds like you guys are saying that pretty much any bookshelf with 13" of back wall space should be fine. The only thing is say I get a diff speaker and I set it up and I end up not liking it how will I know if it's due to to close placement to the back wall that is affecting the mids/highs or it could plainly be the sound signature that I don't like. I guess I know the answer to that question with proper measurements I would know which of the two is the culprit. But I'm just not that person.

Does your stereo have tone controls for bass and treble? That’s all you need and adjust it to your preference.

Being close to the wall will not interfere with mids or highs, the only detriment is potentially making it too bass heavy and you may not even find that to be the case. 13” is more than enough for port clearance.

 

[Seany]

Yes it has tone controls, But here the thing is when do I know I need to adjust the tone controls, that's the thing. How do I know if I have too much bass, is it when I feel like there's too much and it feels artificial and possibly boomy?

 

[Seany]

Does your stereo have tone controls for bass and treble? That’s all you need and adjust it to your preference.

Being close to the wall will not interfere with mids or highs, the only detriment is potentially making it too bass heavy and you may not even find that to be the case. 13” is more than enough for port clearance.

Okay, I'll probably go with this advice. If it just sounds not to my liking then I'll just return them I'm not sure if I want to start messing with tone controls, might be a slippery slope. The guy said at the store if you got to start fiddling with tone controls that means it's not a good speaker or the right speaker. He also said if you have decent electronics tone controls should not even be considered.

 

[dshreter]

Okay, I'll probably go with this advice. If it just sounds not to my liking then I'll just return them I'm not sure if I want to start messing with tone controls, might be a slippery slope. The guy said at the store if you got to start fiddling with tone controls that means it's not a good speaker or the right speaker. He also said if you have decent electronics tone controls should not even be considered.

The guy at the store was wrong. My advice is to adjust it to what you like. There’s nothing different about those polks from any others that means they need more space.

 

[Benedium]

I've found this website very helpful for comparing and learning about speakers... I usually look at tonality >5.7, and PIR smoothness >0.9 .

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

 

[Seany]

By the way when I bought Elac DBR62 they came with a free pair of Elac 22" stands. Ive read often it's important to have the your ears at the height that is the place between the tweeter and the main woofer. So why is Elac supplying measly 22" stands. I would need at least 28" stands that would bring that spot up to 38" and my ears sits at approx 39" and being within 1" of where I need to be instead of being off by 7" currently. Would you be content with 22" stands or should I buy some 28" asap ?

 

[mhardy6647]

So - as an R200 owner - I was curious about the official Polk recommendation on placement. Turns out that there's essentially none in the manual.

https://www.polkaudio.com/-/media/files/documentmaster/polk-us/us/polk_reserve_owners_manual.pdf

I also did a search on the Polk forums to see if any "official" Polk reps commented on the issue, and I didn't find anything. There were only a few mentions of placement at all, in fact (and oddly enough). One might want to search the Polk forums for placement recommendations on the very similar L200 to see if "Polk" themselves ever weighed in on the matter.

Prevailing wisdom certainly holds that rear-ported loudspeakers need to be away from the rear wall (EDIT: by which I mean 'the wall behind the loudspeakers"), but I don't think there's a standard distance.
My R200s (used only for stereo audio) are way out in the room -- but I have the luxury of a large, dedicated (and cluttered!) room -- i.e., I can get away with it!.
I use a pair of Altec Santiagos as speaker stands Probably cheaper than many purpose-built audiophile speaker stands!

For the @Seany's benefit: the R200s are small and light. Experiment with placement!

 

[Steve Dallas]

Distance from the front wall primarily affects the Speaker Boundary Interference (SBIR) center, which in its simplest definition, is a phase cancellation caused by reflected sounds from the front wall, floor, side walls, and potentially ceiling interfering with the direct sound from the front of the speaker. This causes a huge dip in the bass region. The closer to the front wall, the higher the frequency center.

Contra conventional wisdom, I like to push speakers closer to the wall, which forces the SBIR center frequency higher, then treat the wall with broadband absorption to soak up those reflections. I discuss this and show some measurements here:

KEF R3 vs. Philharmonic BMR Grudge Rematch to the Probably not Death Thread

As none of you recall, I tested the roadshow BMRs that Dennis was kind enough to ship all around the country last year and posted a lengthy thread about the experience. And, I ended up liking them enough to buy a pair. They even unseated my KEF R3s, which I sold shortly after receiving the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

And here:

Arendal 1961 Bookshelf review (by Erin)

Just saw this...

www.audiosciencereview.com

There is a caveat. If you go too close to the wall (a couple inches), the wall can act like an extension of a rear port and throw off the speaker's port tuning.

 

[Seany]

As with most speakers, best if ears are at tweeter height. The closer u sit the more critical of course. Use a tape measure if u have to.

Like I said I ready measured everything. Using the stands I got for free I'm 7" off. Now I have to spend money to get 28" stands but I'll only be off by 1". Does being off 7" really make a diff. I guess I'll just get the 28's and I'll do some comparing I guess.

 

[Seany]

So - as an R200 owner - I was curious about the official Polk recommendation on placement. Turns out that there's essentially none in the manual.

https://www.polkaudio.com/-/media/files/documentmaster/polk-us/us/polk_reserve_owners_manual.pdf

View attachment 256437

I also did a search on the Polk forums to see if any "official" Polk reps commented on the issue, and I didn't find anything. There were only a few mentions of placement at all, in fact (and oddly enough). One might want to search the Polk forums for placement recommendations on the very similar L200 to see if "Polk" themselves ever weighed in on the matter.

Prevailing wisdom certainly holds that rear-ported loudspeakers need to be away from the rear wall (EDIT: by which I mean 'the wall behind the loudspeakers"), but I don't think there's a standard distance.
My R200s (used only for stereo audio) are way out in the room -- but I have the luxury of a large, dedicated (and cluttered!) room -- i.e., I can get away with it!.
I use a pair of Altec Santiagos as speaker stands Probably cheaper than many purpose-built audiophile speaker stands!

View attachment 256440

For the @Seany's benefit: the R200s are small and light. Experiment with placement!

Yeah I already checked the manual also. I'm not moving the speakers out any further it would just look off in the living room.

 

[mhardy6647]

Well, that's fine.
Were I you, I'd try a couple of alternative placements, experimentally, to determine empirically whether it makes a difference or not.
You can always put them back where aesthetics dictate after you do.

But, then again, we scientists - for better or worse - are like that.

The Difference

xkcd.com

 

[ZolaIII]

I whose speaking from experience regarding placement from back wall and converted from metric (40~60 cm).
Regarding stands; there are stands that have adjustable vertical angle and heights (sadly not much of them). To avoid refractions from ceiling - floor it's recommended to set height half the way and slope them down to the ear position.
For example I found Gravity SP 3202 VT as nice/compact enough and not bad priced. Keep in mind that the plate is relatively big (10x10“). Of course tastes differ a lot (I prioritise functionality).

Gravity SP 3202 VT | Speaker Stands | Gravity

The Gravity® studio monitor stand SP 3202 VARI®-TILT features a heavy, triangular base made of cast iron and a 250 x250 mm steel tray with isolating foam rests. It is tilt-adjustable by 10° and height-adjustable from 930 to 150 mm for...

www.gravitystands.com

However they weren't match for my speakers which ware to big for the plate and for which I need to use butterfly's instead of plate so I didn't get them (yet).
Thing with ported speakers is that with siled port they become closed enclosure one's and then even those with port back can be put close to back wall (and crossed higher with sub). Problem is R200 have unusual ports and I don't know how you could seal them.
Just remember there are no free rides and you will have to experiment at least regarding placement and of course every pleasure in life have price.
Best regards and have a nice time.

 

[Seany]

Tanks

 

[Benedium]

Can also try Focal's smaller front ported speakers. Maybe smaller speakers with less bass will be more suitable.