IR, FIR, sharp, slow, digital filters, audible?

[Purité Audio]

If this has been covered please re-direct me to the relevant thread.
RME has a handful of filters which are included with the AK chip, apart from the slight h/f roll off, are those various filters going to be audibly different?
If anyone could point me to some independent research?
Keith

 

[Soniclife]

Archimago has investigated this sort of thing, you will have to read a whole bunch of his posts to get the full picture. I think the net result is it might be slightly audible to some people occasionally, but not enough for anyone sensible to care.

 

[Veri]

People seem to swear they are, audible...

 

[solderdude]

But where is the independent research showing the audible differences, aside from the obvious roll-off in the audible range for some filters.
I believe that's what the OP asked.

And how is this tested ?
I mean when there is substantial aliasing this MIGHT become audible depending on the used amplifier and transducers.

Just making a claim it varies between inaudible, audible to some, assumed to be audible, claimed to be anything between barely audible and very audible ?

 

[Purité Audio]

I have read all of Archimago’s blogs and Mans has a couple of excellent articles on his site, I recognise the differences in filter design, but are they audible?
Mistakes of “signalyst’ ( hq player) would have you believe so, but then he is selling.
Keith

 

[solderdude]

The way to test it would be to use a 44.1 file and upsample it to 192kHz with different low pass filters and then listen for yourself using ABX.

 

[kaka89]

While I am not confident that I can pass a blind test, I do have a preference on the filter.
The slow filter (in RME ADI-2) is slight more relax, and sharp filter has a more "hifi" sound (excited, sharp)

I only hear this after I switched my amp from a more slow/less resolving Accuphase A-35 to fast Nuprime ST-10.
ST-10 has more dynamic and allow me to feel such changes.

 

[solderdude]

Just out of curiosity... when you evaluate the filters did someone set them randomly (and you not knowing) or do you set a filter and then listen to them ?

The slow filter has a quite audible roll-off in the audible range (upper treble) so this may be your preference.
Technically it is the worst filter of them all with almost no attenuation of sidebands.

 

[chebum]

The slow filter (in RME ADI-2) is slight more relax, and sharp filter has a more "hifi" sound (excited, sharp)

Same feeling when changing settings on Pioneer SC-LX with Sabre chip.

 

[kaka89]

Just out of curiosity... when you evaluate the filters did someone set them randomly (and you not knowing) or do you set a filter and then listen to them ?

The slow filter has a quite audible roll-off in the audible range (upper treble) so this may be your preference.
Technically it is the worst filter of them all with almost no attenuation of sidebands.

I didn't do a blind test myself, because I cannot identify the sound signature of slow/sharp filter yet.
When I am confident that I can tell the difference I probably will try a blind test.

I did do an AB test with my wife, she didn't know the filter name, and she said she prefers the sharp filter because it has a more forward, surrounding sound. (It doesn't mean much, anyone can have a preference even they cannot identify which is which)

 

[Veri]

I didn't do a blind test myself, because I cannot identify the sound signature of slow/sharp filter yet.
When I am confident that I can tell the difference I probably will try a blind test.

I did do an AB test with my wife

So which did you prefer, RME ADI-2 or your wife

 

[daftcombo]

I think that more treble = more "surround" feeling.
Try +3dB from 5 kHz to 20 kHz. That can give an impression of "wow" sound for a moment.

 

[magor34]

Reviving this thread...
What PCM filters you guys prefer and why?
Specifically I'm using the SMSL SU-8, it has 7 different filters: Fast Linear, Slow Linear, Fast Minimum, Slow Minimum, Fast Hybrid, Apodizing and Brickwall.
I keep changing between fast linear and brickwall and can't seem to make my mind up. Should I be testing all of them?
@amirm did some measurements shortly after the SU-8 V2 review if you want more info on these filters specifically. Which filter(s) are you using?

Any and all replies are much appreciated.

 

[March Audio]

Set Fast linear. Then forget about it. Ringing is a red herring.

 

[magor34]

Set Fast linear. Then forget about it. Ringing is a red herring.

Consider it done.
Thank you, sir.

 

[RayDunzl]

Last Saturday Audio buddy brought over his new DAC which has a few selectable filters.

We couldn't detect them quickly, and didn't pursue it any farther, instead, opting for more beer.

 

[jsrtheta]

While I am not confident that I can pass a blind test, I do have a preference on the filter.
The slow filter (in RME ADI-2) is slight more relax, and sharp filter has a more "hifi" sound (excited, sharp)

I only hear this after I switched my amp from a more slow/less resolving Accuphase A-35 to fast Nuprime ST-10.
ST-10 has more dynamic and allow me to feel such changes.

Wait a minute...

 

[pkane]

Last Saturday Audio buddy brought over his new DAC which has a few selectable filters.

We couldn't detect them quickly, and didn't pursue it any farther, instead, opting for more beer.

The effect of beer on the perception of digital filters is not a well studied subject. I congratulate you on undertaking such an important study.

 

[Ultrasonic]

I know you've seen this Keith but I'll post this here for those that haven't as I found it very informative:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/01/audiophile-myth-260-detestable-digital.html

It lead me to adopt the advice neatly summarised by @March Audio :

Set Fast linear. Then forget about it. Ringing is a red herring.

 

[Ultrasonic]

This article makes some points re. audibility, and links to the results of a blind test:

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/07/musings-digital-interpolation-filters.html