Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[dualazmak]

The VM45 and VM95 bodies are different shape/size, and styli are therefore not (easily) interchangeable.

If you are willing to do some plastic surgery... it may be transferable... but otherwise you will need to find a AT large VM body to host your boron VMn4x stylus (eg: AT440, AT150, and a plethora of derivatives over decades.... loads of options, also under various 3rd party brand names too)

Inductance of the various bodies do vary - and along with the change of stylus, leads to a requirement for custom loading of both C and R loads to achieve optimum results. - If you have a repertoir of older VM bodies, it allows you to choose an optimum inductance for even more loading EQ fun.

Thank you for your quick response; I understand well.

Now, I understand that I should purchase AT-VM520xEB/H (new VM45 cartridge body + VMN20xEB deep blue standard bonded elliptical stylus aluminum cantilever + new headshell AT-LT10) and AT-VMN45xML stylus (dark-red, nude elliptical micro-linear, boron cantilever).

Having the new one with new haedshell, it would be much easier to compare with my current AT-VM95E/H set on TT DENON DP57L.

Thanks again for your kind cooperation and advice.

 

[acd]

Where can I find information about test records suitable for the script?

I have these:
"https://www.discogs.com/release/11516219-Ortofon-Test-Record"
"https://www.discogs.com/release/3212139-No-Artist-Analogue-Test-LP"

Are they usable?

 

[wpbilderback]

Shure V15 VMR with Jico SAS boron stylus

Notes: This measurement was taken using my Shure V15 VMR cartridge with a Jico SAS boron stylus. I ordered the stylus directly from Jico. It has about 80 hours on it. I achieved the flattest response with resistance set at 38kΩ and capacitance at 350pF on my phono preamp. I'm pretty pleased with this result.

• Turntable: Technics SL-1200 Mk. 2
• Tracking force: 1.5 g, anti-skate set at 1
• Phono stage and loading settings
  • Darlington Labs MM6B
  • Settings: 38kΩ / 350pF / +40dB / subsonic filter off
  • Cable capacitance: 115pF
• ADC: Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Gen. 3
• Test record: CBS STR-100

Even with the resistance set at a standard 47kΩ and a capacitance setting of 200pF (315pF total), I don't see quite as much of a peak at 18 kHz as others have measured. For example, @VinyLuke measured a peak of around +5.5 dB also using the CBS STR-100 with settings of 23kΩ and 380pF. I'm unsure how to account for the difference, except possibly through sample-to-sample variation or a change in manufacturing. I have another, older, SAS boron stylus I could check if anyone is interested in seeing the result.

• Phono stage and loading settings
  • Darlington Labs MM6B
  • Settings: 47kΩ / 200pF / +40dB / subsonic filter off
  • Cable capacitance: 115pF

 

[wpbilderback]

Where can I find information about test records suitable for the script?

I have these:
"https://www.discogs.com/release/11516219-Ortofon-Test-Record"
"https://www.discogs.com/release/3212139-No-Artist-Analogue-Test-LP"

Are they usable?

You can find that info here: https://github.com/FidelisAnalog/SJPlot

 

[VinyLuke]

Shure V15 VMR with Jico SAS boron stylus
View attachment 453652
Notes: This measurement was taken using my Shure V15 VMR cartridge with a Jico SAS boron stylus. I ordered the stylus directly from Jico. It has about 80 hours on it. I achieved the flattest response with resistance set at 38kΩ and capacitance at 350pF on my phono preamp. I'm pretty pleased with this result.

• Turntable: Technics SL-1200 Mk. 2
• Tracking force: 1.5 g, anti-skate set at 1
• Phono stage and loading settings
  • Darlington Labs MM6B
  • Settings: 38kΩ / 350pF / +40dB / subsonic filter off
  • Cable capacitance: 115pF
• ADC: Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Gen. 3
• Test record: CBS STR-100

Even with the resistance set at a standard 47kΩ and a capacitance setting of 200pF (315pF total), I don't see quite as much of a peak at 18 kHz as others have measured. For example, @VinyLuke measured a peak of around +5.5 dB also using the CBS STR-100 with settings of 23kΩ and 380pF. I'm unsure how to account for the difference, except possibly through sample-to-sample variation or a change in manufacturing. I have another, older, SAS boron stylus I could check if anyone is interested in seeing the result.
View attachment 453772

• Phono stage and loading settings
  • Darlington Labs MM6B
  • Settings: 47kΩ / 200pF / +40dB / subsonic filter off
  • Cable capacitance: 115pF

Oh wow, incredible results!

My Jico VN5MR SAS stylus is old - I think jico has made some improvments since. I have no other explanation.

 

[Thomas_A]

Oh wow, incredible results!

My Jico VN5MR SAS stylus is old - I think jico has made some improvments since. I have no other explanation.

That or some individual variations. I noted too that peaking was not as bad on my new SAS/B with V15Vx.

 

[JP]

You can find that info here: https://github.com/FidelisAnalog/SJPlot

View attachment 453782

Supported doesn’t necessarily mean preferred or even good for absolute FR measurements. Preferred records are covered in the first post in this thread.

 

[VinyLuke]

Shure V15 IV & Shure VN45MR

View attachment 449178

Notes:

• Stylus is used, hours unknown
• Turntable: Technics SL-1210GR with KAB Fluid Damper
• VTF: 1.50gr
• Phono stage: HusaRIAA v2 (http://tinyurl.com/45ke55cx)
  • Capacitance: ~95pF (total capacitance)
  • Loading: 48kΩ
  • A/D: ASUS PRIME B660M-A Line In and Audacity
• Test record: Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007 side A

Ok I've decided to redo the measurment after I applied a drop of silicone oil for seals on stylus mounting. This helped the damper to regain its original properties.
I've changed the loading to 62kΩ and I took the measurment on my new ADC - Topping 2x2 OTG.

 

[DSJR]

PLEASE peeps - most phono stages offer 47k loading ONLY and I for one am damned if I'm going to open things up to try to change the loading.

I'm repeating myself and I apologise for that, but testing a pickup on 38k loading only, just 'cos it looks best on a graph is academic really, so please fellas, can't you do a conventional response plot as well at the nominal 47 - 50k, to show how these now ancient relic cartridges really perform in the real word (ALL my twenty odd cartridge collection fits the 'ancient relic' brief as do I now ).

My sincere thanks to those who actually *have* used 'standard' loading when presenting performance as in a post or two above.

P.S. My own V15 IV (original HE stylus) perplexes me, as it appears to underplay the sound compared to its peers including the VMR when it worked and the IIIs here. Apparently, it plays acetates exceptionally well, so maybe it's just showing the vinyl losses more than a modern pickup which spices the top octave up a little (or a lot, depending on model) to add some much needed 'sparkle' to the subjective proceedings.

My thanks to @wpbilderback above, as I'd love to get my V15VMR going again and as the cantilever is broken at the hinge point, it may not be viable to splice back together due to the frail cantilever material it used. The original stylus used with damper-brush down, used to sound slightly different at 1.5g or 1.7g (I rather 'preferred' the 1.5g-with-damper I recall. Not sure how the Jico SAS-B version does.

 

[JP]

It’s not academic - lots of people optimize loading, and that number grows as people become more aware. One can buy loading plugs and y adapters.

 

[mglobe]

PLEASE peeps - most phono stages offer 47k loading ONLY and I for one am damned if I'm going to open things up to try to change the loading.

I'm repeating myself and I apologise for that, but testing a pickup on 38k loading only, just 'cos it looks best on a graph is academic really, so please fellas, can't you do a conventional response plot as well at the nominal 47 - 50k, to show how these now ancient relic cartridges really perform in the real word (ALL my twenty odd cartridge collection fits the 'ancient relic' brief as do I now ).

My sincere thanks to those who actually *have* used 'standard' loading when presenting performance as in a post or two above.

P.S. My own V15 IV (original HE stylus) perplexes me, as it appears to underplay the sound compared to its peers including the VMR when it worked and the IIIs here. Apparently, it plays acetates exceptionally well, so maybe it's just showing the vinyl losses more than a modern pickup which spices the top octave up a little (or a lot, depending on model) to add some much needed 'sparkle' to the subjective proceedings.

My thanks to @wpbilderback above, as I'd love to get my V15VMR going again and as the cantilever is broken at the hinge point, it may not be viable to splice back together due to the frail cantilever material it used. The original stylus used with damper-brush down, used to sound slightly different at 1.5g or 1.7g (I rather 'preferred' the 1.5g-with-damper I recall. Not sure how the Jico SAS-B version does.

With all respect, I disagree. And BTW, it is quite easy to change the loading without opening anything up.

 

[VinyLuke]

PLEASE peeps - most phono stages offer 47k loading ONLY and I for one am damned if I'm going to open things up to try to change the loading.

No problemo!
Side A Outer measurement:

and Side A Inner measurment:

 

[watchnerd]

The biggest benefit I feel I get out of my MCs carts is not having to futz so much with loading.

 

[Thomas_A]

Shure V15 VMR with Jico SAS boron stylus
View attachment 453652
Notes: This measurement was taken using my Shure V15 VMR cartridge with a Jico SAS boron stylus. I ordered the stylus directly from Jico. It has about 80 hours on it. I achieved the flattest response with resistance set at 38kΩ and capacitance at 350pF on my phono preamp. I'm pretty pleased with this result.

• Turntable: Technics SL-1200 Mk. 2
• Tracking force: 1.5 g, anti-skate set at 1
• Phono stage and loading settings
  • Darlington Labs MM6B
  • Settings: 38kΩ / 350pF / +40dB / subsonic filter off
  • Cable capacitance: 115pF
• ADC: Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Gen. 3
• Test record: CBS STR-100

Even with the resistance set at a standard 47kΩ and a capacitance setting of 200pF (315pF total), I don't see quite as much of a peak at 18 kHz as others have measured. For example, @VinyLuke measured a peak of around +5.5 dB also using the CBS STR-100 with settings of 23kΩ and 380pF. I'm unsure how to account for the difference, except possibly through sample-to-sample variation or a change in manufacturing. I have another, older, SAS boron stylus I could check if anyone is interested in seeing the result.
View attachment 453772

• Phono stage and loading settings
  • Darlington Labs MM6B
  • Settings: 47kΩ / 200pF / +40dB / subsonic filter off
  • Cable capacitance: 115pF

JICO have changed something at least. The Vx: The print at the damper was previously ”stereo” and black, there is a JiCO marking on the copper stylus housing that is a bit different on the new.

 

[wpbilderback]

JICO have changed something at least. The Vx: The print at the damper was previously ”stereo” and black, there is a JiCO marking on the copper stylus housing that is a bit different on the new.
View attachment 453928
View attachment 453929

I checked my older stylus. Like your older one, it says "STEREO," whereas the newer one says "VN5 MR." Both are black. It's probably 5 years old with around 400 hours on it. If anything, it measures a little flatter than the new one.

 

[Balle Clorin]

@wpbilderback ,and how is it at a more standard 47k and 225pF?

 

[wpbilderback]

@wpbilderback ,and how is it at a more standard 47k and 225pF?

I didn't check. I might not have time until next week, as I'm leaving town tomorrow. However, based on experience, I expect it to be flat up to 10 kHz and about +3 dB at 18 kHz, much like my newer SAS stylus. BTW, unless you are really young, the boost at that frequency will be inaudible. I cannot hear any difference between loading at 47k and 38k, but I do appreciate seeing that flat line nonetheless.

 

[Thomas_A]

I checked my older stylus. Like your older one, it says "STEREO," whereas the newer one says "VN5 MR." Both are black. It's probably 5 years old with around 400 hours on it. If anything, it measures a little flatter than the new one.
View attachment 453933

I think we have enough data not that the JICO SAS/B has unit to unit variation around 10-30 kHz. Interesting - means that you could do selections if possible to return (I did for one unit).

 

[dlaloum]

PLEASE peeps - most phono stages offer 47k loading ONLY and I for one am damned if I'm going to open things up to try to change the loading.

I'm repeating myself and I apologise for that, but testing a pickup on 38k loading only, just 'cos it looks best on a graph is academic really, so please fellas, can't you do a conventional response plot as well at the nominal 47 - 50k, to show how these now ancient relic cartridges really perform in the real word (ALL my twenty odd cartridge collection fits the 'ancient relic' brief as do I now ).

My sincere thanks to those who actually *have* used 'standard' loading when presenting performance as in a post or two above.

P.S. My own V15 IV (original HE stylus) perplexes me, as it appears to underplay the sound compared to its peers including the VMR when it worked and the IIIs here. Apparently, it plays acetates exceptionally well, so maybe it's just showing the vinyl losses more than a modern pickup which spices the top octave up a little (or a lot, depending on model) to add some much needed 'sparkle' to the subjective proceedings.

My thanks to @wpbilderback above, as I'd love to get my V15VMR going again and as the cantilever is broken at the hinge point, it may not be viable to splice back together due to the frail cantilever material it used. The original stylus used with damper-brush down, used to sound slightly different at 1.5g or 1.7g (I rather 'preferred' the 1.5g-with-damper I recall. Not sure how the Jico SAS-B version does.

Lowering the R loading is easily achieved using a simple RCA double adapter with an appropriately calculated R loading plug (very minor soldering required - and only inside the RCA load plug, although there used to be loading plug kits available...)

Raising the R load above 47k is where things get tricky, as you need to open up and change the load inside your phono stage...

 

[watchnerd]

So if it’s ok to post test results with loading, what about with EQ?