Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[melloncolliecat]

Nice to see the vivid line. It seems heavy though, bonded, and peaky. Was thinking of getting it for the Shure V5Vx to test. They should have a naked diamond with it.

Why do the Shures always get the special treatment? Give the Pickerings a lightweight nudie too, LPG!

In all seriousness though, the Stanton and Pickering carts really are worthy of first rate styli...

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Stanton 681EEE MkIII
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Stanton 681EEE measurements from Stereo Review (1975) and Stanton 681EE measurements from Stereo Review (1968)

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Notes

• I wanted to take a look at this again using my CA TRS-1007 given its status as a classic
  • I regretted selling this almost immediately even though it is not a cartridge I would use
• Lightly used, special elliptical stylus with a "shortened" aluminum cantilever
• This is a hard cartridge to set-up consistently
  • You can see the range I got in terms of the downward slope
  • Part of it is the brush, which with age may become more stiff
    • It is hard to get the tracking force right and you will need various test records (for FR and tracking)
  • Part of it is the thin and pliable metal frame, especially the wings that hold the screws (be careful not to bend them!)
    • This can affect azimuth adjustment
  • I wonder if the shortened cantilever amplifies overhang effect
• I am getting a sharp resonance at around 16kHz
  • It seems to affect the right channel more
  • It is not related to the brush
  • Is it in the Stereo Review measurements as well?
• Crosstalk is at around -34 dB
• I still find it interesting that this cartridge was regarded as accurate
  • The 1968 Stereo Review measurements show that the antecedent 681EE model did measure flat (adjusting for STR-100)
  • Stanton strongly claimed that the 681EEE was flat as well, though the 1975 Stereo Review measurements show otherwise
    • And yet, "the Stanton 681EEE sounded as neutral as its linear frequency response and low distortion would suggest"
  • Julian Hirsch suggests that the cartridge was tuned for home use
    • As it could help mitigate the excessive highs of many speakers of the era
      • B&W speakers come to mind and I can see them benefitting from this cartridge
    • Times have changed and this shows how measurements can tell more reliable stories than anecdotes and opinion
      • The comparison to the 681EE is kind of a leap
• Regardless, this is still a well-loved cartridge with a popular FR curve
  • If the above is true it's interesting to see that people like the cartridge either for helping their system sound neutral or for the sloping FR curve and resultant mellow sound
    • Two different (and perhaps contradictory) reasons
  • It also doesn't hurt that the cartridge tracks very well
• It would be interesting to measure a MKI version of the cartridge

I inherited one of these on a Thorens 160 with SME arm. The cartridge didn't stay long. I now know why I kept falling asleep when listening to it.

 

[mglobe]

Our first Hana. I take it its not yours. And, yeah, I agree with you that it may be pretty worn. Only one way to know for sure.

It seems to suffer from a high frequency resonance that is worse on one channel like the Stanton 681EEE above. Actually a few cartridges on this page show something similar, which is odd. Could it have to do with the cantilever? That broad dip doesn't look good, but at least its in the upper frequencies.

View attachment 401157

Makes me want to see a new one’ hopefully a ML.

 

[Aero]

Ortofon Concorde 20

 

[Aero]

Audio Technica 95E

 

[Aero]

Ortofon 5000 MC

 

[Aero]

Ortofon 5000 MC

 

[Palmer]

Concorde, 1200GR, Ortofon T30, looks familiar...

 

[Aero]

Concorde, 1200GR, Ortofon T30, looks familiar...

Yes.
I started writing on this forum wrong. I want to fix it. The program is very good.

 

[USER]

Yes.
I started writing on this forum wrong. I want to fix it. The program is very good.

It looks like you are still having your old issue with the Ortofon Concorde 20 results. Please make sure that your ADC is set-up properly and recording at 96k and try again if you want to resubmit a measurement for it. Otherwise please remove the post.

The others look good so thank you. A reminder that it always helps to provide us as much information as possible, including things like cartridge condition and all loading parameters. If you happen to know of other review measurements or official ones, they also would be helpful.

Less important is that it looks like your test record has an issue with the right an left channels above 10kHz. The consistency is helpful in understanding the results so it is not a big deal. But for your own purposes you may want to confirm that the issue is in fact the test record by recording and analyzing actual music. If you see the issue then it likely has to do with azimuth adjustment. I think that you won't see it. But again a reminder to please not post about the issue(s), or script, or anything not germane to the measurements/cartridges on this thread so that things don't spiral out of control again. I am just doing you a quick courtesy here.

 

[Aero]

It looks like you are still having your old issue with the Ortofon Concorde 20 results. Please make sure that your ADC is set-up properly and recording at 96k and try again if you want to resubmit a measurement for it. Otherwise please remove the post.

Please tell me what is wrong with the Ortofon Concorde 20? This is the first edition of this cartridge from 1979. New out of the box. The cartridge is MI type, the cantilever ends with a metal rod and the magnet is permanently mounted. Ortofon currently does not produce MI type cartridges.
I am using a new test disc
Yes, my sound card, (Focusrite Clarett+ 2Pre) is configured to record at 96kHz, I record at 96 kHz in Audacity.

 

[USER]

Please tell me what is wrong with the Ortofon Concorde 20? This is the first edition of this cartridge from 1979. New out of the box. The cartridge is MI type, the cantilever ends with a metal rod and the magnet is permanently mounted. Ortofon currently does not produce MI type cartridges.
I am using a new test disc
Yes, my sound card, (Focusrite Clarett+ 2Pre) is configured to record at 96kHz, I record at 96 kHz in Audacity.

We have gone over this two times already so please re-read your old posts and responses. I am not engaging with you on this matter any more. Again, this is not the place to discuss this so if you want to ask others about this please do so on the script thread. Otherwise I will actually request a timeout for you. The mods don't seem too thrilled with you so please tread carefully. We are NOT doing this again.

 

[Aero]

Pioneer PC-200

1. New cartridge, taken out of the box
2. The same cartridge, but with a different, also new needle.

Needle, needle not equal, and both are new

Spherical needle, bonded 0.5
The same measuring set.
Pressure - 2.2 grams

Plays brightly
To improve the frequency response, you would need to use a different impedance than the standard 47kOhm and reduce the capacitance. I don't have that option.
The band is boosted 10kHz +2dB, 15 kHz + 4 dB.

The lowest model in the series, budget, the manufacturer added a screwdriver, additional weight (0.8 grams), screws and headshell cables.
Nicely packaged.
The manufacturer recommended replacing the needle every 800-1000 hours.
Needle support with additional damping, low frequencies in the form of a metal string.

Jico produces Jico SAS/Boron needles for this model

Sample to listen to here:

Pioneer PC-200_PLAY.wav

drive.google.com

 

[VinyLuke]

DL-1000A?

Are You planning to remeasure it?

 

[narud]

Professional Re-tipping Example 2: Audio-Technica AT-OC9ML/II
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Original post

Notes

• These are from @mackat and this cartridge was re-tipped with a half-height micro-ridge diamond and "adjusted for optimal channel separation"
  • Initially sent in for a minor body issue (ended up being a loose screw under the sticker) but the diamond broke off during transit
• The second set of measurements has FR corrected to my CA-TRS-1007
• There are a total of two re-tipping examples and each was re-tipped by a different, US-based re-tipper
• We have thought long and hard about how to present these results and decided that we will not name the re-tippers
  • Please don't ask and please don't speculate
• While we don't have measurements of the original condition in this case we can judge the results
• Something went horribly, horribly wrong
  • The downward slope suggests a suspension issue or some issue related to stylus imbalance
    • Did changing the diamond to a shorter one affect this?
  • Mackat felt that too much adhesive was used and that the half-height diamond was susceptible to dust accumulation
    • Is it a changed weight issue?
  • Distortion is completely screwed up
    • Is this the result of the channel separation "optimization?"
      • Obviously with the CBS STR-100 we cannot know the crosstalk results
      • But I am getting lots of hacky GR-Research-type vibes from this
• If you take anything away from this let it be the following: DEMAND MEASUREMENTS FROM RE-TIPPERS
  • Adding this step to a work process is minimal in cost and easy to do for a professional --there is no excuse
    • Heck, there is nothing wrong with a measurement surcharge
    • At the very least a re-tipper should provide evidence of quality work with some examples
  • If you have a cartridge that you really care about and are considering re-tipping in the future, measure it now (and share the results!)
  • You have the power to make the vinyl market better for consumers

With that, spooky week is over. Happy Halloween!

i know this was from a while ago, but is there any chance that the abnormal frequency response for this cart is a result of using the sut into a mm input rather than the retip itself? back when i had an at33sa, i bought a raphaelite dt1.1 because the mc input of the clearaudio nano i was using was super hissy at high gain. when i used the sut into the mm input, the sound became super rolled off. this was long before finding this forum so no measurements, but the change was obvious. i ended buying a different pre with a more quiet mc side.

 

[USER]

i know this was from a while ago, but is there any chance that the abnormal frequency response for this cart is a result of using the sut into a mm input rather than the retip itself? back when i had an at33sa, i bought a raphaelite dt1.1 because the mc input of the clearaudio nano i was using was super hissy at high gain. when i used the sut into the mm input, the sound became super rolled off. this was long before finding this forum so no measurements, but the change was obvious. i ended buying a different pre with a more quiet mc side.

It's not my cartridge and I didn't take the measurements so I can't say much on the matter other than that after taking another look at it I don't think the FR is too rolled off (it's mostly a ~1 dB dip at 5kHz that is super odd) and that I am more concerned about the distortion.

@mackat did measure it with another phono stage and the dip is still there. Distortion is changed but still horrible, especially given that it would be higher still if the FR behaved normally. I don't think he still has that cartridge any longer but he is in the best position to speculate about the effect of the SUT and phono stage.

 

[mackat]

It definitely had nothing to do with the SUT or phono stage used.

 

[Thomas_A]

Clearaudio Aurum Alpha with AT-VM95 microcline stylus

Nothing special too see here

• Clearly an AT MM design, typical curve
• WIthin +|-1 dB frequency response up to 16 k
• Channel balance within spec (< 1 dB)
• Crosstalk very poor, but this could partly be due to the insertion of the stylus is not 100 % perfect (user error by me)
  
  • The plastic parts needs trimming to fit

Back to my Shure JICO/SAS/B...

 

[dougi]

Clearaudio Aurum Alpha with AT-VM95 microcline stylus

Nothing special too see here

• Clearly an AT MM design, typical curve
• WIthin +|-1 dB frequency response up to 16 k
• Channel balance within spec (< 1 dB)
• Crosstalk very poor, but this could partly be due to the insertion of the stylus is not 100 % perfect (user error by me)
  
  • The plastic parts needs trimming to fit

Back to my Shure JICO/SAS/B...

Yeah, my early measurement of the Beta S with VM95EN stylus fitted was similar, but noting my azimuth looked off. I still quite like the look of the wooden body though.

 

[Aero]

Clearaudio Aurum Alpha with AT-VM95 microcline stylus

View attachment 402555
Nothing special too see here

• Clearly an AT MM design, typical curve
• WIthin +|-1 dB frequency response up to 16 k
• Channel balance within spec (< 1 dB)
• Crosstalk very poor, but this could partly be due to the insertion of the stylus is not 100 % perfect (user error by me)
  
  • The plastic parts needs trimming to fit

Back to my Shure JICO/SAS/B...

Clearaudio uses here probably the simplest 2-coil generator used by Audio Technica in its budget 91/95 series and a hundred other models.
It is probably a better idea to buy the Audio Technica, Signet, cartridge itself from the 4-coil generator series, they had about a hundred of these models Then move the bracket to the original frame. You don't have to cut anything, just unscrew the screw, mount the bracket evenly and tighten the screw. It is good to do this under a microscope to mount the bracket perfectly evenly.
The method of mounting the needle here is copied from the Audio Technica AT-23, and derivatives of this model...