Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[Thomas_A]

Ortofon Concorde 20 First Version, probably around 1979.
New Old Stock, out of the box, never used.View attachment 397625

Not too different from OM10.

 

[Quando]

Not too different from OM10.

Well, that's strange, because it has a Fine Line cut, but the tip is joined, it's not made entirely of diamond.

This version of Concorde is of the MI type, the bracket is finished with a metal rod, and the magnet is permanently mounted.

The manufacturer recommends a charging capacity of 400 pf, unfortunately I had no way of setting this parameter.

The insert is very light, which is why the manufacturer includes an additional weight mounted on the arm.

 

[Thomas_A]

Well, that's strange, because it has a Fine Line cut, but the tip is joined, it's not made entirely of diamond.

This version of Concorde is of the MI type, the bracket is finished with a metal rod, and the magnet is permanently mounted.

The manufacturer recommends a charging capacity of 400 pf, unfortunately I had no way of setting this parameter.

The insert is very light, which is why the manufacturer includes an additional weight mounted on the arm.
View attachment 397635

OM10 is also bonded, so a bit heavier moving mass than the 0M20-40 range. Re: fine line vs more coarse tips, high frequency differences are mostly seen in inner tracks. You can reduce R to tame the peak as well.

 

[Quando]

OM10 is also bonded, so a bit heavier moving mass than the 0M20-40 range. Re: fine line vs more coarse tips, high frequency differences are mostly seen in inner tracks. You can reduce R to tame the peak as well.

In fact, any phono cartridge that does not have a linear frequency response throughout the entire range presents a false sound.
Am I thinking correctly?

 

[Thomas_A]

In fact, any phono cartridge that does not have a linear frequency response throughout the entire range presents a false sound.
Am I thinking correctly?

Yes. However, slight peaking 10-20 kHz is less audible.

 

[Quando]

Yes. However, slight peaking 10-20 kHz is less audible.

So the question arises whether any currently produced turntable cartridge with a Micro Line / Shibata / SAS stylus tip cut will have a linear response throughout the entire range?

 

[Thomas_A]

So the question arises whether any currently produced turntable cartridge with a Micro Line / Shibata / SAS stylus tip cut will have a linear response throughout the entire range?

All stylii varies somewhat, so perfect is not really possible. But Ortofon Super OM30/OM40 and Nagaoka MP500 are quite good in the linear response game. Some AT MCs seem ok as well. With respect to currently produced cartridges there are also currently produced stylii (JICO SAS/B) that works well for certain vintage Shures (e.g. V15III, V15IV and V15-Vx).

 

[mglobe]

So the question arises whether any currently produced turntable cartridge with a Micro Line / Shibata / SAS stylus tip cut will have a linear response throughout the entire range?

Here's my Ortofon 2M Black. It's a nude Shibata. From what I recall, I think the STR understates the high end a bit, but still a pretty good response, so maybe a generalization about stylus tip is not valid?

 

[Quando]

Here's my Ortofon 2M Black. It's a nude Shibata. From what I recall, I think the STR understates the high end a bit, but still a pretty good response, so maybe a generalization about stylus tip is not valid?

View attachment 397667

It looks really decently linear, but you need to reduce the standard 47 kOhm to 32 kOhm,

 

[mglobe]

It looks really decently linear, but you need to reduce the standard 47 kOhm to 32 kOhm,

That helped a bit, and was not difficult to do. I am fortunate also that I have the ability to change capacitance with my pre.

 

[USER]

Ceramic Cartridge (INTP-S1 Stylus) / Victrola Montauk Turntable (VM-135) RCA Out
Generic P-188 Cartridge (Chuo Denshi CZ-800 Clone)
Click to increase size

Edit: Seeing that this is a beater test record below is my attempt at a correction and what I think is closer to the actual FR curve.
We've seen a strong resonance like this one below 10kHZ in bad cartridges like this $2000 one, lol.

Notes

• I've wanted to measure a ceramic cartridge for a long while now!
• This gave me problems
  • This is a Bluetooth turntable as well and I think that the signal is getting possessed even before analog out
    • Sound turns on and off with respect to the presence of a signal
      • Otherwise there is horrible noise present when cartridge is lifted
        • There are clear grounding issues
  • So it was hard to trim the files correctly
  • It seems that I am limited to 44.1
  • At this moment I can't convert this to CA-TRS-1007 or correct for the known test record issues
• This is a cheap ceramic cartridge in new condition
  • It appears to use a ruby stylus and an aluminum cantilever
  • It is not the one with the red plastic cantilever, so yay?
  • Should be usable for a good 50 hours according to the manual, lol
• Note that this CBS test record is my beater test record
  • Please adjust FR accordingly (this has a 0.5dB dip between 5-12kHz)
  • Sorry but this is not touching my Clearaudio TRS-1007
    • Especially with the 5g tracking force
  • It has issues above 10kHz so imagine the FR smoother there
    • So no bump on the left channel and dip on the right channel
• There seems to be strong resonance between 5-10kHz
• I still don't know what it means when the third harmonics are higher than the second
• Can I admit that this is better than what I was expecting?
  • However as I don't have enough information about the built in preamplifier these measurements are really about the Victrola
• It sounds like crap though
  • Hum/noise, resonance, and tracking issues
  • Crosstalk and distortion are laughable
  • The scoop out is evident as the sound is a bit hollow
  • Want to hear it?

Any ceramic experts out there? I've love to learn more about these. And please correct anything that I got wrong.

Am I going to buy an authentic Chuo Denshi stylus to try out? We'll see...

 

[mackat]

Ortofon Concorde 20 First Version, probably around 1979.
New Old Stock, out of the box, never used.View attachment 397625

Here's a Concorde 30 of the same era to compare. I don't have the special tonearm weight, so I had to tape a coin to the cartridge. Excuse the channel imbalance:

Edit - Better Measurement:

 

[Quando]

I don't have the special tonearm weight

View attachment 397693

 

[Quando]

I can't understand this, please explain it to me.

If I change the turntable, or the arm itself, or the headshell, the other elements are the same, the cables, the preamplifier, will the measurement of the frequency response of the cartridge give the same or very similar result?
I am getting at whether the arm, turntable, mechanical elements, have an impact on the measurement result or not?
Logically, the measurement result should be far different, because what would be the point of producing turntables, arms, for tens of thousands of dollars if the cartridge frequency response remained the same?
On the other hand, if the turntable, arm has a significant impact on the frequency response of the cartridge, then the measurement results published here should be considered only in conjunction with the turntable used, its arm, etc.

How is it?

 

[melloncolliecat]

Well, I think @USER already kinda answered this yesterday... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...esponse-measurement-script.41148/post-2104566

My short answer would be that the rig, if set up properly, won’t really have an effect on freq response. That’s kind of the point of this thread... Some rigs seem better than others at taming the high freq peaks, though, I don't know if that's due to extensive fine adjusting or if some arms can "take care of" the peaks a bit better...

As for cross-talk, not a big difference either, as long as TT’s and arms are of same general quality. Maybe the cross-talk will be different if comparing a short cheapo arm with a top class 12’ inch one, I don’t know, but would love to see a well conducted test. There are differences when checking carts done by more than one member here, but that could just be down to azimuth adjustments.

Anyway, the differences in TT’s are mostly about speed and isolation, and general functionality and looks, of course. And arms about cartridge compatibility and tracking and tracing.

 

[Quando]

My short answer would be that the rig, if set up properly, won’t really have an effect on freq response.

This is very interesting.
So why are very expensive turntable arms produced, in the range of several thousand dollars, when a cheap arm such as the Technics 1200GR2, which costs about $400, will suffice?
Why?
The cartridge frequency response will be the same anyway?
Are these expensive arms just marketing?
I somehow can't understand it. .

After all, these arms differ significantly in design, without a resonance damping system, with resonance damping, vertically, vertically and horizontally, with the possibility of adjusting the damping level, the way the arm is isolated from the rest of the turntable, the materials used, the bearing parameters, the precision of workmanship, etc.?
Does all this not matter? The cartridge frequency response will be the same?
I have to make such a comparison.

 

[Quando]

Sweep of the entire 20Hz-20Khz band. Test signal from the HiFI News Side B Track 7 disc.
Denon DP-67F turntable with electronic resonance damping system
1. Q - 0 resonance damping system is off
2. Q - 3 maximum resonance damping level

The level and amplitude frequency of the unwanted resonance changes in the range up to 20 Hz, but it has no effect on the 20Hz-20Khz range. The frequency response of the turntable cartridge is identical.
Unbelievable, but that's how it is!

 

[melloncolliecat]

The level and amplitude frequency of the unwanted resonance changes in the range up to 20 Hz, but it has no effect on the 20Hz-20Khz range. The frequency response of the turntable cartridge is identical.
Unbelievable, but that's how it is!

Yep, that’s how it is. Seeing is believing!

The tonearm might behave better with the resonance damping on, but likely the effect is bigger on imperfect records, the most common example being non-flat ones...

As for the various ways of isolating the table, maybe it will lower distortion some? I don't know. Some people swear that updating the TT feet will tighten up the bass, and maybe it will, I’m not even sure what that means, but to me the feet are first and foremost about taking care of possible noise...

 

[Quando]

As for the various ways of isolating the table, maybe it will lower distortion some? I don't know. Some people swear that updating the TT feet will tighten up the bass, and maybe it will, I’m not even sure what that means, but to me the feet are first and foremost about taking care of possible noise...

Just measure it with different turntable feet.

I think nothing will change in the frequency response of the turntable cartridge in the range of 20Hz-20KHz

 

[Quando]

However, it is worth noting that the frequency response measurement method mentioned here does not take into account the usually very high amplitude of unwanted resonance in the range up to 20Hz.
Which is always added to the signal.
Please look at the above graphs, the signal peak at 1 kHz is about - 63 dB, and the peak amplitude of unwanted resonance is about - 54 dB

What we get is signal in the range of 20 Hz- 20 kHz, bonus, unwanted bonus, a high amplitude signal in the range up to 20 Hz.
The sum of these two signals gives a true picture of what we get from the phono cartridge.
The measurement of the cartridge response using the method presented here is only part of the picture of what we get.
Am I thinking correctly?