Do these high capacitances destroy the phase?
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Being a minimum phase system, and as cantilever behaviour (resonance) is also minimum phase, correcting the F/R using a minimum phase mechanism (capacitance), also corrects the phase.
A very serendipitous relationship!
This is also why, if using digital EQ for phono, you should stick with minimum phase filters!
OP
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It's close but that CBS STR-100 does not provide a flat frequency response. So in reality it there is a bump between 5-15kHz or so. See my first measurement of the flat Shure V15 V-MR for a comparison of the records. That all said, in this day and age we can get pretty much any cartridge flat with EQ. Though as you show a great phono preamp with robust loading options can get you very far.
Edit: Something like this on a CBS STR-100 would translate to flat on the JVC and Clearaudio records. Experiment with lower capacitance.
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Thanks for the explanation. I had forgotten about the CBS issue. I keep looking at the Waxwing as a great option to allow for cartridge EQ, but I can’t bring myself to abandon my Apt pre. I feed the output of the Apt into. MiniDSP Flex, so it’s not like I’m opposed to DSP.
Audio Technica OC9XSL
I saw this on USAM with ~70 hours of use at a reasonable price, and curiosity got the best of me!
This cartridge sports a 7 x 38 μm Special Line Contact stylus, possibly supplied by Ogura, IIRC. This is the highest compliance cartridge in the OC9 line, with a dynamic compliance of 18 x 10-6 cm/dyne (100 Hz).
It tracked the 100 μm test on my Ortofon record flawlessly (as does the OC9XML).
As you can see, it has a very similar response to the OC9XML, but with about 1 dB more HF rise.
I wonder if that's why AT positions this as the highest end model, because it gives you the most "air" or "clarity"?
All in all, a nice sounding cartridge, but the OC9XML has a more advanced stylus profile for substantially less money!
I saw this on USAM with ~70 hours of use at a reasonable price, and curiosity got the best of me!
This cartridge sports a 7 x 38 μm Special Line Contact stylus, possibly supplied by Ogura, IIRC. This is the highest compliance cartridge in the OC9 line, with a dynamic compliance of 18 x 10-6 cm/dyne (100 Hz).
It tracked the 100 μm test on my Ortofon record flawlessly (as does the OC9XML).
As you can see, it has a very similar response to the OC9XML, but with about 1 dB more HF rise.
I wonder if that's why AT positions this as the highest end model, because it gives you the most "air" or "clarity"?
All in all, a nice sounding cartridge, but the OC9XML has a more advanced stylus profile for substantially less money!
Balle Clorin
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Is it a suspention problem that gives some cartridges this falling slope?I Also see this downward slope on my Jico SAS-B
the v15vxmr doesnt have the laminated pole pieces of the v15vmr and has a rolled of top end by design.
I'm not definite about the laminations, but the V15Vx is like a higher end version of the M97x... it has the "fat shank" of the M97 V bottom series of styli (they are interchangeable) - but a lower inductance... the inductance is higher than the V15V but lower than the M97x.
Although the original styli were of the same construction as the V15V (ie: very good indeed) - it was definitely a step down... in today's world, with the sas styli, the V15Vx body may well be the better option for a SAS.... the higher inductance of the Vx, will mate more easily with the SAS than the V15V lower inductance body... (due to the SAS stylus being of higher effective mass, therefore the resonance is lower, and the loading EQ is more of an approximation to the V15Vx than the V15V)
well curiosity got the best of me so heres what beryllium/micro ridge looks like on a laminated pole piece/high inductance body. this plot is of a type 3 body (attached to a v15rs mounting cap) with a vn5mr stylus. the body measures 502/514mh, so even higher inductance than a v15vxmr body. i posted this stylus on a v15vmr body earlier in the thread. the right channel droops more than the left channel on this particular sample. its the stylus and not the cart bodies. i have many other vn5mr's and they all test fine. i put this stylus on the type 3 body since theres already a measurement of it here and its what im currently using as a daily driver as its probably only half worn at this point.
looks like it stays pretty flat until 10k or so before dropping off as opposed to starting to drop at 2k on the v15vxmr body. i figured id try this out because a while back i wanted to see what a 150mlx stylus would look like on a solid pole piece generator. i used an at p mount body (on an adapter) with an inductance of 526/528mh.
this guy also starts to droop around 2k before starting its rise at 5k. i posted a plot of this stylus earlier in the thread on a mlx body that had higher inductance than spec (low 400mh iirc). on that body it stayed pretty flat until 5k before starting the rise.
without dissecting the body, is it safe to say the v15vxmr probably has solid pole pieces? i dont know all the math of coming up with resonant frequencies of cantilevers and the like. i just really enjoy goofing around plotting the stuff i have and seeing if it matches what i think im hearing.
Now you need to adjust the R and C loading - it's not far off flat... so with appropriate loading you should be able to get that V15III-VN5MR to a flat FR.
It is worth noting that the Shure specs for loading say "up to 75K R load" and I cannot recall what they specified for C - but it was a wide range... and it definitely wasn't a fixed C and 47kOhm
Jimi Floyd
Active Member
Can you please provide a link to the “up to 75k load”? I am a lifetime Shure cartridge user but I never saw that.
With some magnification you can look in to the receiver and see the pole pieces.
Jimi Floyd
Active Member
Thanks a lot! The V15 III with an MR Shure stylus is playing at mine almost dayly. I know that document since forever but I never noticed the comment concerning the load resistance. Well spotted.
i wouldnt ever run that combo. i just wanted to see what the plot would look like.
You will find it in this manual for the V15III
And I was slightly off... it is "up to 70,000 ohm"
With the SAS needles a combo like that makes a lot of sense - the SAS having a heavier cantilever, has a lower resonant frequency which needs to be balanced by a different LCR combination for proper EQ...
The higher inductance bodies, are therefore a better match for the SAS styli.
I would look seriously on a V15III-SAS combination
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