Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[Balle Clorin]

… of course you have….

 

[aaaakkkk]

Azimuth did change slightly between takes. Also, this copy is slightly warped. Side A up at the edges, side B down.

View attachment 348625

Thank you, can you do the same test but with tracks 9 and 10 to see the drop in frequency response closer to the center?

 

[Balle Clorin]

@mackat very nice results. Interestingly in your measurements we don't see the the azimuth related crosstalk problem. I wonder if different issues of that test record behave differently in this respect? I will pay more attention to the side of the test record next time...

My 3 Clearaudio CA TRS-1007 compared

Post in thread 'Frequency Response Test Records'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ency-response-test-records.30210/post-1872455

 

[Risto_H]

Thank you! Which crosstalk problem are you referring to? I tried to adjust azimuth visually as best I could with these, and I think I got pretty lucky.

I have noticed in this thread that in many cases you get very different crosstalk graphs from left to right and right to left. To make it more difficult to assess if the problem is in the test record or cartridge installation, results seem to vary from system to system and also between test records. In my measurement, crosstalk was and is quite different between channels and the same happened with Jico SAS as well as the original needle. The cartridge is visually installed straight and I don't believe both of the needles would have an azimuth issue. Of course it could be the cartridge coil placement that might be the root cause in my case.

 

[stereoplay]

Another AT-VM95ML:

Some frequency response plots and additional plots to this measurements:

CBS STR-100:

Technics SFC-TR100:

Clearaudio CA-TRS1007:

Audio Technica AT-6605 (Resonance@41KHz):

FIM vertical:

FIM lateral:

 

[mackat]

Thank you, can you do the same test but with tracks 9 and 10 to see the drop in frequency response closer to the center?

Sure, I will try to get to that soon.

 

[aaaakkkk]

Another AT-VM95ML:

View attachment 348688

Some frequency response plots and additional plots to this measurements:

CBS STR-100:
View attachment 348689
View attachment 348690

Technics SFC-TR100:
View attachment 348691
View attachment 348692

Clearaudio CA-TRS1007:

View attachment 348693
View attachment 348694

Audio Technica AT-6605 (Resonance@41KHz):
View attachment 348695

FIM vertical:
View attachment 348699

FIM lateral:
View attachment 348697

View attachment 348698

How did you measure "Phase" ?

 

[stereoplay]

I use the crosspower spectrum function:

Produktdokumentation - NI

www.ni.com

 

[Risto_H]

Shure V15 Type IV / Jico SAS-B / CA-TRS-1007 (B)

As promised, measurements with correct settings for full 96 kHz sampling rate and two different capacitance settings (see post #852 for my original attempt):

Lower load capacitance (the lowest setting of my RIAA):

Notes:

• Turntable: Denon DP-51F
• Jico SAS B needle is brand new
• VTF: 1.5 g with damping brush in use (in this unit from Jico, damping works out of the box as it should)
• Phono stage:
  • RH_RIAA 3.0 (my own design, curve accuracy +/-0.1 dB)
  • Capacitance set to 160 pF, Denon stock cables estimated to have 120 pF ---> 280 pF
  • The second graph has input capacitance setting at 50 pF ---> 170 pF total
  • 47 kOhm
• A/D: Native Instruments Komplete Audio 2, 96 kHz/24 bit sampling in Windows settings
• Test record Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007, B side first tracks
• Differences to my first attempt
  • 96 kHz sampling correctly set, distortion > 10 kHz is visible
  • Test record side B (I used side A at first)
  • FR peaks slightly at 16 - 18 kHz. I suspect this is the combined effect of 96 kHz sampling and test record side B.
• Peaking is more benign with 280 pF load

 

[Risto_H]

Shure V15 Type IV MR / CA-TRS-1007 (B)

The same measurements as above but with Shure MR needle:

Notes:

• Turntable: Denon DP-51F
• MR needle is 40 years old but estimated use is 100 - 150 hours so should be in a pretty good shape
• VTF: 1.5 g with damping brush in use
• Phono stage:
  • RH_RIAA 3.0 (my own design, curve accuracy +/-0.1 dB)
  • Capacitance set to 160 pF, Denon stock cables estimated to have 120 pF ---> 280 pF
  • The second graph has input capacitance setting at 50 pF ---> 170 pF total
  • 47 kOhm
• A/D: Native Instruments Komplete Audio 2, 96 kHz/24 bit sampling in Windows settings
• Test record Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007, B side first tracks
• Changing the needle results into pretty clear differences (vs. Jico SAS-B)
  • Jico SAS-B has much lighter cantilever ---> treble response is quite different
  • FR peaks at 10 kHz and drops from there
  • With MR needle correct capacitance setting might require testing wider range of capacitances
  • I don't know if the FR is typical for MR needle but visually (under microscope) the needle and cantilever seem to be in good condition and the suspension is not hardened.

To summarize, the new Jico SAS-B is a good upgrade and the V15 Type IV is still a great cartridge. I also have the original (hyper elliptical?) needle left that came with the V15 Type IV. I thought that one could be worn out but I just checked it under a microscope and it seems to have plenty of life left. I don't remember how many hours it might have but it could be something like 500 h. The low VTF may be the reason why it is still in pretty good shape. I may measure it in the future as well for completeness. Distortion figures may also reveal if my microscope check yielded correct results.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Many thanks, your SAS B totally different from my V15 IV SAS B, your is normal mine not . I seem to attract faulty styli 3 failures last months.
Bought 6 cartridge/Styli last year. 2 where OK, 3 useless, 1 not normal. The best one was the cheapest, in fact the cheapest cartridge money can buy…

 

[USER]

Audio-Technica AT3600L with Analogis Black Diamond Replacement Stylus
Click to increase size

Notes:

• Thought it would be nice to look at a fashionable stylus replacement
• NOS, nude, elliptical "black diamond" stylus
  • This is the newer version with a lower tracking force (1.5-2.25g)
• This wants as little capacitance as possible
• I added an old measurement of the NOS, standalone AT3600L
  • Note that it is a CBS test record measurement and so the FR dips between 5-15kHz by about 0.5dB
  • I'll remeasure the cartridge in the near future but others have posted measurements already

 

[Balle Clorin]

Black is not Not so good as the original I think. Maybe I can Get my AT91R replaced and remeasure…

 

[Balle Clorin]

Thorens TPU 257 = Audio-Technica AT3600= Rega Carbon

View attachment 296932
View attachment 296935

• Cartridge: Thorens TPU 257=Audio-Technica AT3600=Rega Carbon
• Stylus condition new <5 hrs on vinyl,
• Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
• Turntable and arm: Michell Gyro SE. Measured peak wow <0.1%. Arm resonance with cart __Hz
• Tracking force: 3g
• Phono stage and loading settings: Parks Audio Puffin. EQ=500R-0=corrects for TRS-1007 and B&Q QR2010/QR2009 response. Toslink out to USB converter to PC
  • Capacitance and impedance: 50pF fixed, 47k ohm . Total 147pF with cables
  • SUT if used: Not used
• Cable capacitance
  • Try to measure if you can, it matters with MM cartridges: 15+80+2=97pF internal arm leads, cable, connector) +50pF RIAA
  • Multimeters tend to exaggerate this, LCR meters work best and are a very useful tool to have: Vendor statements
• ADC: internal in Puffin.
• Recording: no adjustment on balance, no Azimuth adjustment on cartridge, 5-48kHz, PC and Puffin at 48kHz.

NOTE Bought this to the to check/ eliminate if some strange vibrations on low noise spectrum can from my MC cart or not, turned out to be a vibrating belt causing the anomali.

Thorens TPU 257 AT-3600 Re-done with different turntable Sony PS-212 and changed lower input capacitance on modded Puffin RIAA .NISTE suspect Antikating was too low on this
ERROR REMOVED

Difference shown for LEFT channel. Diffrence in capacitance shows up un peak, and TT+Arm I guess effects smoothness of FR

With AT91R, anti skate correct

 

[VinyLuke]

Shure V15 V-MR with Jico SAS/B Replacement Stylus

Notes:

• Turntable: Technics SL-1210GR with KAB Fluid Damper
• Headshell: Audionix GS-6
• VTF: 1.25gr (no brush)
• Phono stage: HusaRIAA v2 (http://tinyurl.com/45ke55cx)
  • Capacitance: ~95pF (set at 0pF)
  • Loading: 23kΩ
• A/D: ASUS PRIME B660M-A Line In and Audacity
• Test record: Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007 (B1/B2)
• Stylus has some mileage ~250h
• Crosstalk could be better

 

[JP]

That's reaching for the sky.

 

[VinyLuke]

That's reaching for the sky.

Yep. Jico should do better with this one.

 

[JP]

Yep. Jico should do better with this one.

IIRC, all the V15V SAS are a miss. At some point I'll have to measure mine - I have B/Z/S/R versions. I think different loading may help you, though. @Thomas_A and I remembering right that you've tamed the B?

 

[Octopie]

Doesn't Shure specify 400-500pF loading capacitance for all the V-15 models? I see this also one was set at about 95pF.

 

[Thomas_A]

Yep. Jico should do better with this one.

You did show more linear response after reducing R though. In another thread.