Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[USER]

Audio-Technica VM750SH
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Notes

• These are from @mackat
• The second set has FR corrected to my CA TRS-1007
• Nude, shibata stylus with aluminum cantilever
• Likely loaded closer to 100pF
• Like most Audio-Technica shibata cartridges I've seen, the resonance is a little bit more controlled than in the microline version
• The CBS STR-100 crosstalk results don't help us

 

[narud]

in my own measurements of a 150mlx (2nd stylus posted here) signet am50, 152lp on signet am 50 body (never posted it) and 150sa. the frequency response in the high end peaks and then seems to level off rather than having an abrupt roll off. on the current gen styli, it looks like the high end peaks and then rolls off pretty quickly. could that be something thats going on with the suspension?

 

[USER]

in my own measurements of a 150mlx (2nd stylus posted here) signet am50, 152lp on signet am 50 body (never posted it) and 150sa. the frequency response in the high end peaks and then seems to level off rather than having an abrupt roll off. on the current gen styli, it looks like the high end peaks and then rolls off pretty quickly. could that be something thats going on with the suspension?

No evidence of suspension issues. You can look at my examples to see what that looks like.

The difference could be one or more of many different things: set-up, phono stage RIAA, test record (check for warping), etc.

 

[narud]

No evidence of suspension issues. You can look at my examples to see what that looks like.

The difference could be one or more of many different things: set-up, phono stage RIAA, test record (check for warping), etc.

i was thinking more of an intentional suspension tuning difference in the current gen at styli rather than suspension failure. if we ignore mine and take a look at mackat's 150mlx stylus 1 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tridge-measurement-library.46108/post-1792523, it doesnt immediately roll off after the peak. all of my old measurements i mentioned (150mlx, 150sa, 152lp, am50) pretty much look like that. the 540ml measurements and the 750sh measurement you just posted look like they all roll off pretty quickly after the peak.

 

[USER]

i was thinking more of an intentional suspension tuning difference in the current gen at styli rather than suspension failure. if we ignore mine and take a look at mackat's 150mlx stylus 1 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tridge-measurement-library.46108/post-1792523, it doesnt immediately roll off after the peak. all of my old measurements i mentioned (150mlx, 150sa, 152lp, am50) pretty much look like that. the 540ml measurements and the 750sh measurement you just posted look like they all roll off pretty quickly after the peak.

We both think that was not set-up properly. We've discussed it. In fact, the very post alludes to that. There will be more examples posted and they behave similarly. Like with the VM540ML, I have seen enough examples from various sources to have confidence in what it looks like.

 

[narud]

We both think that was not set-up properly. We've discussed it. There will be more examples posted and they behave similarly. Like with the VM540ML, I have seen enough examples from various sources to have confidence in what it looks like.

while they dont show the same degree of high frequency peaking that everyone elses measurements do, iirc jp's measurements of the 150mlx all are similar to the measurements im referencing that peak and then stay relatively level rather than peak and immediately roll off like the 540ml and that 750sh measurements do.

 

[narud]

audio technica 152lp stylus on signet am50 body

- i took the measurement on the signet am50 body since the 152lp p mount cart used the higher inductance body.
- nos 152lp stylus with beryllium rod cantilever and at's linear contact stylus which is supposed to be a modified shibata.
-technics sl-q2 (cables measure 120pf)
-modified art djpre at 0 pf setting
-tascam 1x2

 

[USER]

Our measurements are not apples to apples for many reasons, though they may actually be a little bit more similar that it may first seem.

As far as differences with the VM750SH and such, inductance likely accounts for that. Audio-Technica does change that from time to time with newer line ups (often making them worse in my opinion) and that accounts for a lot of the shape of the resonance. I believe there is around 100mH difference between the 150MLX and the 540ML. The results make sense to me.

Again, unless you know your phono stage RIAA curve we are merely speculating about the differences between our 150MLXs so you shouldn't dwell on this so much. My phono stage is flat so no RIAA ever came into the equation.

Plus you are using a completely different test record, one with known issues above 10kHz. This is what that same AT150MLX you linked to looks like converted to my CA TRS-1007. Now there is more of a droop there because the conversion made up for the inaccuracy of the STR-100. Again, my Shure V15 V-MR post can help you see the differences in FR between the test records. The STR-100 is not as accurate as the JVC or CA TRS-100 and any measurements done with it cannot be taken as a final say.

Also note that tracking force can also make a cartridge droop a little more at the tail end and I have seen warping exaggerate this. This is all documented on the introductory posts. If you send me your measurements for your better 150MLX result in private I can try to convert it to you. It won't be perfect but I think things will make a little more sense.

 

[aaaakkkk]

audio technica 152lp stylus on signet am50 body
View attachment 334085Sb
- i took the measurement on the signet am50 body since the 152lp p mount cart used the higher inductance body.
- nos 152lp stylus with beryllium rod cantilever and at's linear contact stylus which is supposed to be a modified shibata.
-technics sl-q2 (cables measure 120pf)
-modified art djpre at 0 pf setting
-tascam 1x2

The mechanical resonance of a beryllium cantilever is higher than that of an aluminum cantilever. Where is the peak at 152lp stylus with beryllium rod cantilever. you can find out by speeding up your cbs str 100 to 45rpm. and plot a new graph up to 27 kHz.

 

[USER]

@narud

Here are Amir's measurements of some ART phono stages. Both seem to show a slight rise, though the DJ Pre measurement is scaled in a way that makes it hard to see. Anyways there seems to be a tendency with the brand, which doesn't seem to have tight tolerances for the components that go into the RIAA curve, and your results make sense if we consider this.

 

[narud]

Our measurements are not apples to apples for many reasons, though they may actually be a little bit more similar that it may first seem.

As far as differences with the VM750SH and such, inductance likely accounts for that. Audio-Technica does change that from time to time with newer line ups (often making them worse in my opinion) and that accounts for a lot of the shape of the resonance. I believe there is around 100mH difference between the 150MLX and the 540ML. The results make sense to me.

Again, unless you know your phono stage RIAA curve we are merely speculating about the differences between our 150MLXs so you shouldn't dwell on this so much. My phono stage is flat so no RIAA ever came into the equation.

Plus you are using a completely different test record, one with known issues above 10kHz. This is what that same AT150MLX you linked to looks like converted to my CA TRS-1007. Now there is more of a droop there because the conversion made up for the inaccuracy of the STR-100. Again, my Shure V15 V-MR post can help you see the differences in FR between the test records. The STR-100 is not as accurate as the JVC or CA TRS-100 and any measurements done with it cannot be taken as a final say.

View attachment 334088
Also note that tracking force can also make a cartridge droop a little more at the tail end and I have seen warping exaggerate this. This is all documented on the introductory posts. If you send me your measurements for your better 150MLX result in private I can try to convert it to you. It won't be perfect but I think things will make a little more sense.

that droop still doesnt look anything like the 540ml measurements which all spike down pretty quickly. that measurement and the measurements im talking about pretty much look like the at published 150mlx response curve. ive posted a measurement comparison of the signet taken on a puffin (which has been measured here for riaa accuracy and circuit capacitance) and the art djpre that i pulled the input cap from and they for the most part match so i dont think riaa is an issue here.

 

[narud]

The mechanical resonance of a beryllium cantilever is higher than that of an aluminum cantilever. Where is the peak at 152lp stylus with beryllium rod cantilever. you can find out by speeding up your cbs str 100 to 45rpm. and plot a new graph up to 27 kHz.

heres the left channels of the 150sa vs the 152lp. both are using the higher inductance generator. aluminum cantilever vs beryllium. both are supposed to be shibatas.

 

[aaaakkkk]

heres the left channels of the 150sa vs the 152lp. both are using the higher inductance generator. aluminum cantilever vs beryllium. both are supposed to be shibatas.
View attachment 334100

Are the cantilevers the same length? Are the dampers the same? From these graphs, in my opinion, it is clear that the peak is in different places.

 

[narud]

Are the cantilevers the same length? Are the dampers the same? From these graphs, in my opinion, it is clear that the peak is in different places.

i have all of these bodies aligned on technics headshells using the technics jig. swapping styli on a single body result in the same overhang. couldnt tell you about the damper. honestly, what i was most curious about was the current at styli taking a pretty immediate dip after the peak.

 

[aaaakkkk]

Rega Ania restored cantilever installation from Sony XL-45 Shibata.
The repair was not made by me.
Experiments with extending and retracting the cantilever were performed by me

cartridge before restoration

after

 

[Balle Clorin]

Never seen a Rega with rising response!! Usually they drop off too soon

 

[USER]

Audio-Technica AT7V (US or Late Version)
Click to increase size

Japanese import:

Notes

• NOS, nude, 0.2 x 0.7, special elliptical stylus with aluminum alloy cantilever
• Long exclusive to Japan it was sold in the US toward the end of production
• I was struck by the higher resonance peak compared to my first copy of the cartridge
• Pictures show that the stylus is different in this version
  • Is the added mass from the glue the difference?

 

[aaaakkkk]

Never seen a Rega with rising response!! Usually they drop off too soon

I don't have a new one. Can you provide a link to the test results, cartridges from Rega?

 

[Balle Clorin]

Found this . Look here links. Ania seems to differ ..

Alle Rega Tonabnehmer im Vergleich - LowBeats

Seit 1973 baut Rega Plattenspieler, seit 1988 eigene Tonabnehmer. Die ersten Abtaster hießen Bias un

www.lowbeats.de

 

[aaaakkkk]

Found this . Look here links. Ania seems to differ ..

Alle Rega Tonabnehmer im Vergleich - LowBeats

Seit 1973 baut Rega Plattenspieler, seit 1988 eigene Tonabnehmer. Die ersten Abtaster hießen Bias un

www.lowbeats.de

Thank you!