Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[USER]

I imagine that you have an xg7001... ;-)
you can check this crosstalk on its 1khz signals reference 3.54cm...
they can be measured around 35db... if it is 35 don't tell us if it could be better. ..but if less...come from the cartdrige.....
the problem is to know when the limits are side tests used and when the cartdrige...
(some discs offer the possibility of doing better than 35 db at 1khz, but this is on signals at 6.5cm or 8cm.... see dedicated tests)

I don't own either of the cartridges so that is impossible at the moment. I'd say to trust Denon on those specs as they have provided reliable data for decades. More, I really don't think crosstalk matters all too much in everyday use. For something that is already pretty bad in the best case scenario, I really can't hear its effects personally. (I posted samples a few pages ago and there should be a digital version of the track included.) Of course I want the best sound reproduction/archive copy possible and use cartridges that perform well but I wouldn't tell anyone to go out of their way to get a particular test record for that one test, at least not yet. Again, I generally trust specs and have even found the better cartridges perform even better in terms of crosstalk. FR, as Floyd Toole told us with his blind test experiment, is king. Hopefully others can provide measurements of these cartridges using better test records. For now I think that it is important that the library grows. Once we hit critical mass we can have some fun by doing deep dives into cartridges members want to investigate further and even do recording comparisons!

 

[Thomas_A]

I imagine that you have an xg7001... ;-)
you can check this crosstalk on its 1khz signals reference 3.54cm...
they can be measured around 35db... if it is 35 don't tell us if it could be better. ..but if less...come from the cartdrige.....
the problem is to know when the limits are side tests used and when the cartdrige...
(some discs offer the possibility of doing better than 35 db at 1khz, but this is on signals at 6.5cm or 8cm.... see dedicated tests)

You know that the Ortofon cutter gives different crosstalk than the Neumann. Check Josh pages.

 

[morillon]

I don't understand...
basically (I like it well)... like many here, I have many test discs...
I just select from those that I have, those offering me the best results on a rather efficient cartdrige on this point. at 1k...
then under constant conditions..if a cartdrige does less, well..I can estimate a value that is probably quite relevant...
if it does the same for this cartdrige (the one 155lc), it must have a comparable value or that is better ...
hardly more to say...I will leave it there...
(maybe stop using the ranges intended for the fr and dig the own 1khz of your disks test of your cupboards is a better alternative for the crossover to share here?)

 

[USER]

I don't understand...
basically (I like it well)... like many here, I have many test discs...
I just select from those that I have, those offering me the best results on a rather efficient cartdrige on this point. at 1k...
then under constant conditions..if a cartdrige does less, well..I can estimate a value that is probably quite relevant...
if it does the same for this cartdrige (the one 155lc), it must have a comparable value or that is better ...
hardly more to say...I will leave it there...
(maybe stop using the ranges intended for the fr and dig the own 1khz of your disks test of your cupboards is a better alternative for the crossover to share here?)

That's fine if you are setting up your cartridge for use, but when you are measuring 50+ cartridges for measurements I feel that it is a waste of time. I do not use the 1kHz signal to check azimuth adjustment anyways. As I've mentioned I have found that crosstalk is maximized when the azimuth is adjusted so that left and right channel FR are perfectly parallel. I don't care much for the 1kHz signal measurement because azimuth has a more profound effect at 10kHz plus (this is something people that work on cassette decks know) and even test records with poor crosstalk results can be helpful to set-up properly because of FR. More, depending on your alignment, it can all change as the record plays on. I don't even know if setting up for outer groove performance is ultimately the best strategy.

Edit: I do think a good test would be to compare FR parallel-ness (did I just make up this word?) across various test records with different crosstalk capabilities and at each other's optimized results. That said, I do think measurements should show best case scenarios for the test record itself, even if it is ultimately limited. Otherwise it would be very confusing to understand.

 

[morillon]

uhh..
I was just talking about crosstalk measurements..and from experience this approach which is historically the method works quite well but is very dependent on the test available...
after its interest or not was not the subject..

 

[USER]

this approach which is historically the method works quite well

I'm being sincere when I say this but I'd like to see evidence of this. And I'd like it to offer a global view including FR.

 

[aaaakkkk]

You know that the Ortofon cutter gives different crosstalk than the Neumann. Check Josh pages.

Where can I read about this?

 

[Thomas_A]

Where can I read about this?

VTA

Somewhere on the page, but originally in the “book of JVC”.

Josh pages are one of the best sources regarding the history of LP playback. Some pqges in English. .

Site Map

 

[Elkerton]

Thomas,
Thanks for the links!
Steve

 

[aaaakkkk]

Thomas,
Thanks for the links!
Steve

Thanks

 

[USER]

Denon DL-60
Click to increase size

Note that Denon often uses JVC TRS-1005, which droops more that TRS-1007

Notes

• This cartridge came with a lot of the midrange Denon turntables of the early 1980s
  • I bought this to complete my DP-35F and to hear/see what it sounded like as released
• It is a medium compliance cartridge
  • Denon has faith in its Q-Damping system
  • Because the tracking force says that it is not best paired with a low-mass tonearm
  • Ironically I measured it here with my Sony PS-X50, which has a high mass tonearm
• Very lightly-used, bonded, 0.3 x 0.7, elliptical stylus with aluminum cantilever
  • You can see how wear affects distortion by comparing this to Balle Clorin's measurements
• This cartridge seems to have less distortion than the "higher-end" MC lines
• Crosstalk is average
  • I find that wear "improves" crosstalk results like in the other sample
• Resonance is shifted past 20kHz
• This sample is a bit ugly up close
  • What is that crud? Glue? Oxidation? Is it possible to remove?
  • It might be adding weight and increasing the resonance compared to the other sample
• Large channel imbalance compared to the other sample
  • Cartridge measurements say 99% left and right channel match

 

[aaaakkkk]

"What is that crud? Glue? Oxidation? Is it possible to remove?" it can be easily removed with a cotton swab and isopropyl alcohol.


"Note that Denon often uses JVC TRS-1005, which droops more that TRS-1007" I've never seen a comparison of JVC TRS-1005 vs TRS-1007. Maybe you have a link?

 

[USER]

"What is that crud? Glue? Oxidation? Is it possible to remove?" it can be easily removed with a cotton swab and isopropyl alcohol.


"Note that Denon often uses JVC TRS-1005, which droops more that TRS-1007" I've never seen a comparison of JVC TRS-1005 vs TRS-1007. Maybe you have a link?

Normally that can clean most anything for me but a rigorous cleaning resulted in no change. I am considering trying out a Magic Eraser bar but am nervous about it. It hasn't been a good day for me as far as styli go so I am likely going to leave it alone. My concern is that it is a poor glue job and if I dissolve or force it off somehow the diamond will fall off.

I did find that a stylus I thought I cleaned was still dirty. I wasn't 100% happy with the measurement results and perhaps this helps explain why. Perhaps. The dirt was really caked-on, likely from long-time storage in suboptimal conditions. I bought it from Japan and it seems that they have a big storage problem over there as A LOT of used cartridges up for auction are corroded as hell. That makes me worried about the internals. I am thinking most of the good stuff was picked over the last few years. I am much more wary these days.

Managed to get rid of most of the dirt. A re-do is on the docket for this week. If there is no change perhaps the uneven diamond cut throws it off balance and is to blame.

Also I am confident there are measurements of the TRS-1007 on this site. Do a search. Check the Test records, Fun with vinyl measurements, or MM MC MI threads.

 

[morillon]

the magic eraser solution is a very effective solution and used by many enthusiasts even with extremely expensives cartdriges... and in particular in very dirty cases etc.....
you can go there very confidently...

 

[aaaakkkk]

"Also I am confident there are measurements of the TRS-1007 on this site."

I only saw measurements of TRS-1007, I did not see TRS-1005.

The stylus is glued with epoxy resin; alcohol does not dissolve it.

 

[USER]

Yamaha MC-5
Click to increase size

Original post

Notes

• These are from @mackat
• Two sets of results: CA-TRS-1007 FR correction ("c") and regular CBS STR-100
  • CA-TRS-1007 conversion is more accurate above 1kHz
    • I am finding CBS STR-100 to be a little inconsistent below that
    • Not worth getting perfect as performance for cartridges is generally similar across the board
• NOS cartridge with special elliptical stylus and beryllium cantilever
  • One of the better cartridges Yamaha made
• The MCs that I have seen all show a little rise at the higher frequencies
  • Would be nice to have a Dynavector show up in the library
  • Here it is nicely controlled
  • No doubt due to the low mass (0.167 mg) afforded by the beryllium cantilever
    • Resonance peak is beyond graph, above 20kHz
• Could use a little more azimuth adjustment but we get the point
• Distortion is a bit high above 10kHz, much like with Denons
  • It would be good to measure one of these on a CA-TRS-1007 to confirm
• Exceptional crosstalk

WHY DO THE CROSSTALK MEASUREMENTS SEEM TO BE CORRECT FOR CBS STR-100 HERE, AT -35 dB NO LESS?
This is the only example of the nearly 30 measurements like this. Most are limited to -20 dB. My own copies lose it at -25 dB.

 

[USER]

Phasemation PP-200
Click to increase size

Original post

Notes

• Our first luxury/audiophile cartridge!
  • Play nice if you want more of these posted
• These are from @mackat
  • I'll save him the time: "in case you're wondering, no, I did not pay anywhere near the ridiculously inflated US MSRP..."
• Two sets of results: CA-TRS-1007 FR correction ("c") and regular CBS STR-100
  • CA-TRS-1007 conversion is more accurate above 1kHz
    • I am finding CBS STR-100 to be a little inconsistent below that
    • Not worth getting perfect as performance for cartridges is generally similar across the board
• Brand new cartridge with line contact stylus and pure boron cantilever
• Crosstalk spec'd at -25 dB so not too far off even with CBS STR-100
• Channel balance is no bueno considering price
• Distortion is also high above 10kHz much like how we have been seeing lately
  • A good modern cartridge can stay at or below -20 dB across the full range
• I understand the curiosity: it's a beautiful Japanese boutique MC with a seemingly high-quality stylus
• However, that's a pretty insane and ugly resonance, made worse AT 10kHz
  
  • Is it having an effect below 5kHz??????
  • Just compare it to the Yamaha above
    • You can't find two better cartridges to compare
    • One was made by professionals, the other was not

 

[USER]

Audio-Technica AT-VM95ML
Part 1: low-mass servo tonearm
Click to increase size

Notes

• This first set is on a low-mass servo tonearm
  • I will add high-mass tonearm measurements next week
• Microlinear stylus at this price is a big deal
  • It ensures good FR consistency and less distortion as cartridge moves toward inner-groove
    • It should also track better than elliptical equivalent
  • But resonance is sensitive to set-up (VTA, alignment, tonearm, and tracking force)
    • See examples of adjustments
    • For optimal results you need adjustment tools or test record
• I appreciate the built-in screw holes
  • Make this universal please!
    • The whole washer thing is not necessary
• Distortion is as good as I have seen
  • -30 dB above 5kHz!!!!
• Once again the Audio-Technica house FR: -0.5-2.0 dB at normal loading conditions
  • FR is slightly tapered because of the higher cartridge inductance (500mH+) compared to older models
  • And as expected, -1.0-1.0 dB at total 100pF
• The only issue is the crosstalk at around -22 dB
  • I will try to confirm with my better DIN 45 543 test record
  • I don't know what to think about this
  • I wouldn't want this for professional record archiving
  • But can you actually hear this??
    • This is a great cartridge for comparisons
• This seems like a perfect Audio-Technica cartridge that was deliberately handicapped slightly because of price point
  • Higher inductance (tapered FR), crosstalk, and (for some) higher tracking force requirement
  • But can a regular person actually hear these limitations???
  • This also shows there has been little to no improvement since 1980s as this is essentially the most basic A-T body
  • And this also shows how little value more expensive cartridges offer
• Very hard not to recommend this cartridge

 

[USER]

Ortofon 2M Red vs 2M Blue
Click here for audio samples

The measurement results were to my surprise different from the ones already posted but consistent between the cartridges and similar to other ones I have seen of the line. Before I post them at the end of the week I figured I'd put up some audio samples so that anyone interested can compare them. Below is what Ortofon itself says about the differences between the cartridges. Is this marketing bullshit or are they making claims based on reason and audio science? One of the cartridges has a minor issue and will be returned, though for me it doesn't affect the parameters Ortofon sets. Again, an outer-groove track so likely best case scenario recordings. Loaded at 210pF so that they are more comparable to an average set-up.

 

[melloncolliecat]

A&R Cambridge (Arcam) P77 Mg

• Mg = later version with Magnesium alloy body
• Like many other cartridges, it is based on the Excel QD-700
  • The Sumiko Pearl should be the most commonly available sibling today
  • Other siblings include: Rega 100, Shelter 201, Coral 555/666, Andante (Sumiko?), LP Gear’s The Vessel
• Original stylus, Paratrace tip (50 x 7um)
• Only lightly used, according to seller
  • Looks to be in good condition
• Test record: Clearaudio TRS-1007 side A track 1 & 2 sweeps
  • Warped and hole is off-center
• Cable capacitance estimated, not actually measured, to 125 pF.