Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[fricc]

Just to clear things up, I will only add measurements to the library if the first measurement is of a "normal load." Esoteric loads, while lovely to see as supplementary measurements, are not useful for the purposes of this project and do not give us a view of the cartridge's "historic performance." We want this to also be an archive of the medium in a certain sense. Certainly EQ has today made "perfect loading" (lol) even easier to achieve.

I'm hoping to update the library in the coming weeks, but, man, did you guys add work this last week.

Thanks for your message, I very much appreciate that. and I apologize for the unnecessary traffic. I had made a bunch of mistakes in my initial measurements, some other users helped me improve my process and find the right config for a linear response with the AT cart.

Would it make sense to delete the old posts and start fresh with clean ones at nominal impedance?

 

[JP]

I think nominal is important, but I also appreciate custom loading so people can gauge what's possible.

 

[somebodyelse]

Since we've seen temperature affect frequency response almost as much as loading does, don't we also need to state and/or standardise temperature as well as loading?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...un-with-vinyl-measurements.20278/post-2420586
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...audio-waxwing-measurements.56248/post-2670773

 

[USER]

I think nominal is important, but I also appreciate custom loading so people can gauge what's possible.

Agree completely. I hope all my responses to this situation have made that explicitly clear.

 

[USER]

Since we've seen temperature affect frequency response almost as much as loading does, don't we also need to state and/or standardise temperature as well as loading?
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...un-with-vinyl-measurements.20278/post-2420586
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...audio-waxwing-measurements.56248/post-2670773

While I do think that making a temperature reading for each measurement mandatory may be overkill, I do think it is important to note if it should be taken into consideration. I'm open to suggestions for a general "room temperature" range that we can adopt as standard. Then we can ask people to note if it is outside the range. Everyone's home is different so perhaps I am not aware of just how much it can swing between summer and winter. Plus being American is likely blinding me to this as we tend to go overkill with air conditioning and heating.

I myself note in my personal set-up section that all my measurements are taken at a temperature between 68-72 F year round.

Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

Skip to the index. After years of development we are finally launching our phono cartridge measurement library. These measurements were created using the brilliant cartridge response python script, SJPlot, written by the legendary @scott wurcer and @JP. Information about its origins can be...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[sqrl]

Just to clear things up, I will only add measurements to the library if the first measurement is of a "normal load." Esoteric loads, while lovely to see as supplementary measurements, are not useful for the purposes of this project and do not give us a view of the cartridge's "historic performance." We want this to also be an archive of the medium in a certain sense. Certainly EQ has today made "perfect loading" (lol) even easier to achieve.

I'm hoping to update the library in the coming weeks, but, man, did you guys add work this last week.

Not all MM cartridges were designed to work best with 47 kΩ loads, eg. quad-capable cartridges. Data with 47 kΩ and 150-200+ pF loads make sense as being useful for most people now, but the "historic performance" justification is sometimes revisionist.

 

[sqrl]

Would it be useful to split the index into "currently available to purchase new (and tested new?)" and "may be available on used market" sections?

 

[mglobe]

I like the optimal loading results as part of the information we can gain from this library. It’s instructional both in terms of helping the less knowledgeable (me) understand loading, and also offers a suggested loading when someone acquires a particular cartridge. Not sure how inclusion of this should be handled (if at all) in the library, but I personally think it is additive.

 

[USER]

Not all MM cartridges were designed to work best with 47 kΩ loads, eg. quad-capable cartridges. Data with 47 kΩ and 150-200+ pF loads make sense as being useful for most people now, but the "historic performance" justification is sometimes revisionist.

Oh for sure if a cartridge was meant to be loaded a certain way then ideally it would be shown that way. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise and I also don't think anyone is pushing a one size fits all view of loading. (Hence my constant use of scare quotes.)

I like the optimal loading results as part of the information we can gain from this library. It’s instructional both in terms of helping the less knowledgeable (me) understand loading, and also offers a suggested loading when someone acquires a particular cartridge. Not sure how inclusion of this should be handled (if at all) in the library, but I personally think it is additive.

I think the current system with them being supplementary in the post seems to work just fine.

 

[somebodyelse]

While I do think that making a temperature reading for each measurement mandatory may be overkill, I do think it is important to note if it should be taken into consideration. I'm open to suggestions for a general "room temperature" range that we can adopt as standard. Then we can ask people to note if it is outside the range. Everyone's home is different so perhaps I am not aware of just how much it can swing between summer and winter. Plus being American is likely blinding me to this as we tend to go overkill with air conditioning and heating.

I myself note in my personal set-up section that all my measurements are taken at a temperature between 68-72 F year round.

Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

Skip to the index. After years of development we are finally launching our phono cartridge measurement library. These measurements were created using the brilliant cartridge response python script, SJPlot, written by the legendary @scott wurcer and @JP. Information about its origins can be...

www.audiosciencereview.com

68-72 F (20-22 C) seems a fair one to adopt as 'normal' indoor temperature given we usually use the 20C dry air 1atm value for speed of sound. It's also the range that's often said to be the most productive office temperature here (UK), although that seems to have some gender bias built in as various sources suggest that on average women prefer it 2-3 C warmer than men. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_temperature#Comfort_temperatures lists sources showing significant international differences in preference too, some of them over 30 C. Given the international nature of this forum, that large range of comfort temperature suggests we really ought to be recording it. It's also making me question which of our other assumptions it might affect - the initial controversy over the KH80 measurements not matching Neumann's turned out to be because of temperature, and a 10 C temperature difference could have a significant effect on reliability.

 

[somebodyelse]

Would it be useful to split the index into "currently available to purchase new (and tested new?)" and "may be available on used market" sections?

That would probably be useful to anyone looking to buy something now. Another thing would be whether original or 3rd party stylus replacements are still being made, like the Jico ones for cartridge bodies long out of production but still available used.

 

[JP]

While I do think that making a temperature reading for each measurement mandatory may be overkill, I do think it is important to note if it should be taken into consideration. I'm open to suggestions for a general "room temperature" range that we can adopt as standard. Then we can ask people to note if it is outside the range. Everyone's home is different so perhaps I am not aware of just how much it can swing between summer and winter. Plus being American is likely blinding me to this as we tend to go overkill with air conditioning and heating.

I myself note in my personal set-up section that all my measurements are taken at a temperature between 68-72 F year round.

Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

Skip to the index. After years of development we are finally launching our phono cartridge measurement library. These measurements were created using the brilliant cartridge response python script, SJPlot, written by the legendary @scott wurcer and @JP. Information about its origins can be...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Humidity can have as significant an impact, so one without the other seems like a strained concept. Of course, elastomer age, manufacturing tolerances, etc. can all play a role that varies between less and more significant than temperature as well. I think a list of meaningful confounders as general guidance would be a great thing, as would people listing known parameters for their measurements. Giving the impression that specifying the parameters of two confounders of legion is meaningful would be folly. Buyer beware.

 

[Balle Clorin]

I live at 23c normally, but my Shure V15-IV + Jico SASB liked 28 C much more than me , it performed much flatter ,actually perfectly, at 28C on a hot summer day, at 23C it has a gradual drop above 8k, No aircondition in my home..

So + outlier temperatures may impact the result. Easy to add a note on Temperature. So I will do that.

PS. I notice that some with aircondition , like Brazians like it cool, below 20 at home and 16 in the car… I get sick every time I visit Rio.

 

[somebodyelse]

Humidity can have as significant an impact, so one without the other seems like a strained concept.

I know humidity affects the speed of sound in air, and is a consideration when using some plastics like nylon. Do you have measurements showing its effect on cartridges? Maybe a subject for a new thread that can be pointed to in the OP.

 

[fricc]

Audio Technica VM 750xSH

This cartridge sounds really bright with the default nominal impedance values. At 90pf/33kOhm it is linear enough.
There is almost a dB of imbalance between channels, and is crosstalk performance is mediocre at best, so much for the dual magnet tech.
On the good side distortion is very low, in fact the lowest of the bunch in my measurements.

 

[fricc]

Dynavector 10X3

I inherited this cartridge with a turntable I bought on eBay some 20 years ago. I never really used it, and I don't know how much the original owner actually used it.
Everything looks in good shape. I inspected it with a digital microscope and it looks OK.
This cartridge is very linear and separation is quite good. Distortion is quite high in general, and it raises a lot at HF.
The cantilever is very long, that might have HF resonances, but also the stylus might be somewhat worn out. I was not able to determine that under the microscope.

 

[fricc]

Pickering XSV 3000

I also inherited this cartridge with a turntable I bought on eBay some 20 years ago. I never really used it, and I don't know how much the original owner actually used it.
The cartridge is in excellent shape, it has excellent crosstalk performance, and it sounds very spacious. Distortion is quite good for such an old cartridge.
I would have expected the XSV 3000 to perform similarly to the Stanton 881s, but the latter has much better linearity and distortion characteristics.

Bonus fact: The XSV 3000 and the Stanton 881s are NOT electrically and mechanically compatible. I tried using the D81s stylus from the 881s on the XSV 3000 body: it fit snugly, but HF response was not flat and it had much higher distortion than the Stanton. I also inserted the stylus from the XSV 3000 on the 881s body, the fit was very loose and it would wiggle around. I don't think it is a good idea to mix and match.

 

[fricc]

Shure V15 V MR

I bought this cartridge on eBay as NOS some 20 years ago, I think I paid $230, a real bargain.
It is incredibly linear, crosstalk is excellent and distortion is very low except for a peak around 18hHz.
It basically matches the distortion perf of the brand new AT VM 750xSH above, even though I must have used this cart well above 500 hours.
If there is a modern cart that is actually better than this, please let me know.

 

[fricc]

Stanton 881s (Stereohedron)

I probably bought this cartridge 45 years ago, in my teens, it is quite beat and the tiny wings of the mount are a real pain to deal with.
Nevertheless it turns out to be extremely linear, with very good crosstalk and good distortion, even though It has been used quite a bit.
This is the "Stereohedron" version, I had upgraded it to the D81s stylus at a certain point. I also have the original D81 hyperelliptical stylus around, the aluminum of the cantilever looks real weird, like it has developed a number of tiny cracks near the tip. Maybe one day I'll give it a spin and see what it does.

 

[fricc]

I have deleted my previous measurements, most of them had some kind of problem or another. It has been a learning experience, thanks for your patience.
The new measurements above are of good quality and should allow USER to index these results with some confidence.
All measurements were all done in the space of a few hours at a temperature of ~70°F.
For all measurements I used a Technics SL-1300G with a miniDSP ADept and 3ft Blue Jeans phono cables.
For all measurements I tried my best to adjust the Azimuth to minimize the distance between the Crosstalk curves.
BTW: when inserting the headshell in the tonearm there is plenty of play, every insertion gets a different azimuth. I actually used the play to slightly twist the headshell while tightening the collar, and adjust the Azimuth to get the best results. Reproducibility of the Azimuth without actually measuring with a test record is basically nil.
Many thanks to mackat for his patience and advice with measurements and setup, and every one else who did the same on this forum.