Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[Thomas_A]

If I'd been measuring things when I first bought it, I'd have asked to exchange it. The performance specifications are for a vertical tracking angle of 20°, which this can never reach. Channel separation improves as VTA gets closer to the specification, which may be why this one is 3 dB below spec.

Channel separation and VTA is a mysterious issue, as discussed in the "Fun thread". So far however, it is quite clear that distortion decreases when VTA approaches the ideal closer to 20°.

 

[SigmaR1]

Tnahk you for these answers and links. So what's the best way to get close to the recommended value when you have no tool to measure distorsion or crosstalk levels?

I remember the document supplied by Dual for the tuning of the VTA adjustable headshell of the CS5000: It indicated the correct values for the main carts at this time, and I was puzzled by the different values given for 2 models of the same series, eg OM20: +2°; OM30: 0° :/ That was weird since the very same document explained with a scheme that the correct VTA was achieved when the bottom of the cart was parallel with the record... and both OM carts share the same body! This document is still available on the Vinyle Engine library.

 

[Thomas_A]

Tnahk you for these answers and links. So what's the best way to get close to the recommended value when you have no tool to measure distorsion or crosstalk levels?

I remember the document supplied by Dual for the tuning of the VTA adjustable headshell of the CS5000: It indicated the correct values for the main carts at this time, and I was puzzled by the different values given for 2 models of the same series, eg OM20: +2°; OM30: 0° :/ That was weird since the very same document explained with a scheme that the correct VTA was achieved when the bottom of the cart was parallel with the record... and both OM carts share the same body! This document is still available on the Vinyle Engine library.

The best way is to get a test record. The AP test record has a 1 kHz track for vertical modulation, which can be used. The second best is to take a photo using a USB microscope and estimate the cantilever angle. If it is e.g. 24 degrees when the stylus rests on the record (static load) one can be quite sure that the actual VTA is between 24-26°. Then one can use angled shims to correct it closer to 20°. Most records are cut between 18-23°.

 

[SigmaR1]

The best way is to get a test record. The AP test record has a 1 kHz track for vertical modulation, which can be used. The second best is to take a photo using a USB microscope and estimate the cantilever angle. If it is e.g. 24 degrees when the stylus rests on the record (static load) one can be quite sure that the actual VTA is between 24-26°. Then one can use angled shims to correct it closer to 20°. Most records are cut between 18-23°.

By the way, any advice for a correct (and not expensive) USP microscope?

 

[mackat]

Shure V-15 V - JICO SAS/B HG

This is a Shure V15 V cartridge body, pre-V-MR. I bought the stylus from a Japanese retailer.

This is a translation from JICO's website:

"Normal type: Like the genuine SHURE product, it uses a "tension wire" to pull the cantilever, and then fixes the needle body (more precisely, the part called the "holder") on top of it.

High Grade type: It features a "one-point tension wire" design, which makes the fulcrum more precise when the cantilever detects vibrations from the record groove. As a result, the outline of the sound is felt more clearly and distinctly."

This one is definitely an improvement over the last one I had. Not sure if that one was normal or HG.

 

[Thomas_A]

Shure V-15 V - JICO SAS/B HG

This is a Shure V15 V cartridge body, pre-V-MR. I bought the stylus from a Japanese retailer.

This is a translation from JICO's website:

"Normal type: Like the genuine SHURE product, it uses a "tension wire" to pull the cantilever, and then fixes the needle body (more precisely, the part called the "holder") on top of it.

High Grade type: It features a "one-point tension wire" design, which makes the fulcrum more precise when the cantilever detects vibrations from the record groove. As a result, the outline of the sound is felt more clearly and distinctly."

This one is definitely an improvement over the last one I had. Not sure if that one was normal or HG.

View attachment 528839
View attachment 528838

Seems like JICO have worked on the Shure stylii. I see similar stuff. Either a slight rise or flat in the top octave.

Fun with vinyl measurements

Yes, sorry, you are producing so many apps now.I think the results with the Groove geometry app are in the ballpark when comparing to the Sperling record for the Groove Geometry.. Tracing distortion goes from about 0.25 to 1 % for a 1 kHz signal, at ≈2.5 cm/s. Below. I am sure how I use the LF...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Erogen]

Shure V-15 V - JICO SAS/B HG

To jest korpus wkładki Shure V15 V, sprzed V-MR. Igłę kupiłem u japońskiego sprzedawcy.

Oto tłumaczenie ze strony internetowej JICO:

Typ normalny: Podobnie jak w oryginalnym produkcie SHURE, do naciągania wspornika używa się „drutu napinającego”, a następnie mocuje się korpus igły (dokładniej część zwaną „uchwytem”) na jego szczycie.

Typ High Grade: Posiada konstrukcję z „jednopunktowym drutem napinającym”, która zwiększa precyzję punktu podparcia, gdy wspornik wykryje drgania z rowka płyty. W rezultacie kontur dźwięku jest wyraźniejszy i bardziej wyrazisty.

To zdecydowanie lepszy wynik niż poprzedni. Nie jestem pewna, czy tamten był normalny, czy HG.

View attachment 528839
View attachment 528838

This isn't good. The frequency response and crosstalk between channels aren't smooth. The line isn't straight, it's a wave, up, down, etc. There's a problem here.

 

[Thomas_A]

This isn't good. The frequency response and crosstalk between channels aren't smooth. The line isn't straight, it's a wave, up, down, etc. There's a problem here.

Record issues.

 

[sqrl]

Audio-Technica AT160ML



Specifications
Stylus and cantilever: Nude microline, beryllium with gold deposition
FR: 5 Hz - 35 kHz
Channel balance: <0.5 dB
Channel separation: 31 dB at 1 kHz, 21 dB at 10 kHz
VTF: 1.25 g (0.08-1.8)
Tracking: 90 microns
Output: 5 mV at 1 kHz and 5 cm/S
Recommended Load Impedance: 47 kΩ and 100-200 pF
VTA: 20°
Weight: 8.1 g

Poor channel balance and channel separation initially. Magnets and stylus were misaligned.


Rotated the cantilever and magnets a little.


Added 4° VTA shim (VTA was ~24°) and 1° azimuth shim


Treated damper with gummipfleger - after 36 hours



Adjusted load

And at 47 kΩ and 145 pF

Frequency response from Audio magazine, Sept. 1984 review.

Overall, it gets fairly close to specifications and harmonic distortion is mostly below -30 dB, although high frequency extension over 20 kHz has gone. Along with some gold flakes.

 

[mackat]

Audio-Technica AT160ML

Well done! That looks like a very nice result. Practically flat from 20 Hz to 15 kHz is certainly nothing to sneeze at.

I've always been curious about the earlier high-end AT MM's, but have never bought one due to the known suspension issues.

Thanks for posting

 

[sqrl]

Thanks. I wasn't sure if adjusting compression of the damper might restore some HF extension, but having got better channel balance without damaging the cantilever, I'm not pushing my luck any further.

Will try repeating gummipfleger until no further improvements and hopefully no bad effects.

 

[mash]

Hana ML (version 1), 2G, 200Oh, STR 100

My first go at using the script / website…

Setup: VPI Traveler (std arm), Blue Jeans Cable 1M Phono RCA/Ground cable, Parks Audio Puffin Phono Pre 24/96K, Blue Jeans Coax Cable, Beis DA2USB 24/96K Coax-to-USB converter, USB cable, RPi4 running rooExtend/rooPlay (recording flac file on USB stick), Audacity to trim file and convert to wav format.

Stylus condition: I did not have the Puffin Cartridge logging turned on for this but estimate that the cartridge has 400-600 hours on it (used on high quality record collection). I also don't have a good USB microscope to post a picture of the tip but would welcome recommendations.

Loading: std 200 ohm Puffin MC setting

Measurement without Puffin EQ:

 

[Balle Clorin]

This isn't good. The frequency response and crosstalk between channels aren't smooth. The line isn't straight, it's a wave, up, down, etc. There's a problem here.

You must be joking… some minor arm resonances far down in crosstalk are peanuts. actually few charts look as good as that one

 

[sqrl]

Hana ML (version 1)

My first go at using the script / website…

Setup: VPI Traveler (std arm), Blue Jeans Cable 1M Phono RCA/Ground cable, Parks Audio Puffin Phono Pre 24/96K, Blue Jeans Coax Cable, Beis DA2USB 24/96K Coax-to-USB converter, USB cable, RPi4 running rooExtend/rooPlay (recording flac file on USB stick), Audacity to trim file and convert to wav format.

Stylus condition: I did not have the Puffin Cartridge logging turned on for this but estimate that the cartridge has 400-600 hours on it (used on high quality record collection). I also don't have a good USB microscope to post a picture of the tip but would welcome recommendations.

Loading: std 200 ohm Puffin MC setting

Measurement without Puffin EQ:
View attachment 529232

You've certainly got a nice azimuth adjustment, channel balance and smooth frequency response. You could add the test record, load and VTF to the header in the plot. The distortion goes quite high and channel separation is well below the -30 dB spec. I think Wallytools had a video of their shimming of a Hana cartridge and had to reduce its VTA substantially to optimize it. You might be able to improve distortion and channel separation by shimming. There are several posts on the Fun with Vinyl Measurements thread recently about this.

You can get a reasonable picture of the angle of the cantilever at the edge of a record with a camera phone and then upload it to an online protractor site to get an estimate of the cantilever angle and of how much you can possibly shim the back of the cartridge down.

No specific recommendations for a brand of USB microscope, but you will need ~200x magnification to image stylus wear and 5MP+ to get reasonable resolution. The other important thing is a sturdy stand that allows you to hold the microscope stable and also horizontal at the level of a record, if you want to take pictures of the stylus rake and cantilever angle. Also useful is a LED ring light that can go around the microscope, as discussed in the Vinyl Engine stylus imaging thread. I think you can probably put these together now for < $100.

 

[sqrl]

You must be joking… some minor arm resonances far down in crosstalk are peanuts. actually few charts look as good as that one

Yes, the azimuth adjustment and channel separation are actually excellent.

 

[mash]

You've certainly got a nice azimuth adjustment and channel balance. The distortion goes quite high and channel separation is well below the -30 dB spec. I think Wallytools had a video of their shimming of a Hana cartridge to reduce its VTA substantially. You might be able to improve distortion and channel separation by shimming it to reduce VTA. There are posts on the Fun with Vinyl Measurements thread recently about this. You can get a reasonable picture of the angle of the cantilever at the edge of a record with a camera phone and then upload it to an online protractor site to get an estimate of the angle and of how much you can possibly shim the back of the cartridge down.

No specific recommendations for a brand of USB microscope, but you will need ~200x magnification to image stylus wear and 5MP+ to get reasonable resolution. The other important thing is a sturdy stand that allows you to hold the microscope stable and also horizontal at the level of a record, if you want to take pictures of the stylus rake and cantilever angle. Also useful is a LED ring light that can go around the microscope, as discussed in the Vinyl Engine stylus imaging thread. I think you can probably put these together now for < $100.

Thanks for the response.....

I don't need to use shims for VTA adjustments on the VPI (it can be adjusted at the base of the tonearm via a threaded ring on the main arm post). I did some initial VTA adjustments (with measurements) and they weren't having much impact on the results. I may try increasing the amount of adjustment and see how it impacts the results.

I know I have some Azimuth issues (via Puffin testing) but these are much harder to address with the VPI. Here I would need to use cart mounting shims....which I could do but its a pain and would introduce mounting angle variability.

Here is a slightly better result, achieved after playing with the Puffin's EQ functions and doing some alignment adjustments:

Beyond adjusting VTA, I'm not sure how much further I intend to play with this setup, as I will probably switch to a new cartridge in the not to distant future. I might even look into upgrading my turntable to something that allows for some easier adjustments to things like Azimuth and Anti-skating. That said, having a better way of measuring VTA is definitely on my short list.

 

[sqrl]

Thanks for the response.....

I don't need to use shims for VTA adjustments on the VPI (it can be adjusted at the base of the tonearm via a threaded ring on the main arm post). I did some initial VTA adjustments (with measurements) and they weren't having much impact on the results. I may try increasing the amount of adjustment and see how it impacts the results.

I know I have some Azimuth issues (via Puffin testing) but these are much harder to address with the VPI. Here I would need to use cart mounting shims....which I could do but its a pain and would introduce mounting angle variability.

Here is a slightly better result, achieved after playing with the Puffin's EQ functions and doing some alignment adjustments:

View attachment 529258

Beyond adjusting VTA, I'm not sure how much further I intend to play with this setup, as I will probably switch to a new cartridge in the not to distant future. I might even look into upgrading my turntable to something that allows for some easier adjustments to things like Azimuth and Anti-skating. That said, having a better way of measuring VTA is definitely on my short list.

Hi again- your FR is both smooth and quite flat, as the STR100 has a HF rise. Your azimuth actually looks good in terms of similar crosstalk. Channel separation is probably better than it appears here, as it tends to measure worse on the STR100 than e.g. the TRS-1007, or using 1kHz test tones.

You can't adjust the cartridge VTA downwards very much with the threaded ring, because tonearm height is generally set around baseline for a standard cartridge height. I think the Hana ML height is 16.3 mm, which is lower than standard and makes it harder. You can use thicker mats, but this only allows a couple of degrees adjustment before they are thicker than the spindle. Or you could use spacers, in which case it would be more efficient and would keep the tonearm and headshell level if you used shims instead.

 

[mackat]

Victor U-1E

This is a pretty unique integrated headshell cartridge. It appears to have been released to celebrate Victor's 50th anniversary in 1977.

(pictures not of my unit)

I don't think I've seen another cartridge that has 2 screws to secure the stylus assembly!

Type	MM Type Cartridge
Structure	Integrated MM Type
Needle type	0.1 mm Square Diamond Elliptical Needle
Output	3.0 mv (1 kHz, 5cm/sec.)
Frequency characteristic	10 Hz to 40 kHz
Proper needle pressure	1.5 ± 0.2g
Load resistance	47 ~ 100k Ω
Dead weight	22.0g
Needle exchange	DT-U1E(¥11,000)

This is quite a heavy cartridge. It uses a duralumin tapered pipe cantilever with titanium deposited onto it and a 0.3 x 0.7 mil diamond.

Not quite as flat as I was hoping for, but it actually sounds very good.

 

[Balle Clorin]

I know I have some Azimuth issues (via Puffin testing) but these are much harder to address with the VPI. Here I would need to use cart mounting shims....which I could do but its a pain and would introduce mounting angle variability.

Make yourself a Wally Fulcrum by setting a 1-2mm strip of a credit card between cartridge and head shell.

 

[sqrl]

Victor U-1E

This is a pretty unique integrated headshell cartridge. It appears to have been released to celebrate Victor's 50th anniversary in 1977.

View attachment 529269View attachment 529270

(pictures not of my unit)

I don't think I've seen another cartridge that has 2 screws to secure the stylus assembly!

Type	MM Type Cartridge
Structure	Integrated MM Type
Needle type	0.1 mm Square Diamond Elliptical Needle
Output	3.0 mv (1 kHz, 5cm/sec.)
Frequency characteristic	10 Hz to 40 kHz
Proper needle pressure	1.5 ± 0.2g
Load resistance	47 ~ 100k Ω
Dead weight	22.0g
Needle exchange	DT-U1E(¥11,000)

This is quite a heavy cartridge. It uses a duralumin tapered pipe cantilever with titanium deposited onto it and a 0.3 x 0.7 mil diamond.

View attachment 529272View attachment 529271
Not quite as flat as I was hoping for, but it actually sounds very good.

I was hoping to get a U2, but I still haven't found what I'm looking for ...

FR looks decent, but I guess the damper has deteriorated, so it rolls off and distortion rises quite high.

It looks like the overhang is adjustable? Are you limited to the Technics alignment and is there any wiggle-room if the cantilever is not 100% straight? Did you find any sources for styli? They seem to be much more readily available for the X1 and Z1 and even the U2.