Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[USER]

Nagaoka MP-700

This is certainly a strange one:

View attachment 512043
Here is a measurement of the MP-500 stylus on the MP-700 body:

View attachment 512044
Very similar to the MP-500 body, so the issue seems to be with the MP-700 cantilever assembly.

It is interesting that they were able to bring down 2nd harmonic distortion so much on the MP-700. Much closer to typical ML/Shibata levels.

I am really curious to know what they say, what is causing this, and if it is a defect or a design choice of some sort.

Picture of my MP-700 (on a different turntable than used for these measurements):
View attachment 512046

(Yes, two of my headshell lead colors are reversed, but they're connected properly)

I hope you can make that exchange a return. What the f is Nagaoka doing?


Also, what the f is HIFINEWS doing? "A worthy flagship!" lol. They show the issue as well but the resolution is so low it is smoothed out. They need to get it together.

Nagaoka MP-700 cartridge Lab Report

This is a true champion of the MP genre. Nagaoka’s previous flagship, the longstanding MP-500 [HFN Feb ’11 and Jan ’23], demonstrated much of the moving-permalloy’s potential [see boxout], including excellent tracking ability and very low distortion, but still possessed a gently declining treble...

www.hifinews.com

Also... half a million views!! That's a lot in any audio forum. Congrats to JP and all the contributors. With reviews like the above, it's a relief to know this library exists.

 

[USER]

What's interesting to me is that *I think this is true so please let me know if I am wrong* the only types of cartridges I have seen in this library that have not shown this type of issue are MM cartridges.

We have several MC cartridges like the Denon DL103R and (sorry again mackat!) the fancy Phasemation cartridge as a worst case example. I had always thought this was an MC cartridge issue, though, like mackat, I still maintain that it is a cantilever issue.

We even have a fancy Soundsmith MI cartridge showing similar behavior.

And now a MP cartridge...

If this is true, then is there some kind of mechanical/design constraint imposed by these systems that can lead to a higher possibility of this type of issue?

 

[mackat]

The Denon DL-103 I purchased in 2020 also shows this:

(Also, what on earth caused the difference in distortion between these two measurements? The second, earlier one is insanely low for a conical.)

My other 2 (used) DL-103's do not show this:

The Goldring 1042 I had showed something like this only in the right channel:

 

[Balle Clorin]

My ATOC9ML2 has A similar blip in one channel,I wrote to AT but they told me not no worryso much and Play Music…, it was 10 years from purchase to test so no no returns.,
Post in thread 'Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library'
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tridge-measurement-library.46108/post-1646203

 

[JP]

Can @essence or @mackat provide the file? I want to investigate that blip.

 

[mglobe]

I hope you can make that exchange a return. What the f is Nagaoka doing?


Also, what the f is HIFINEWS doing? "A worthy flagship!" lol. They show the issue as well but the resolution is so low it is smoothed out. They need to get it together.

Nagaoka MP-700 cartridge Lab Report

This is a true champion of the MP genre. Nagaoka’s previous flagship, the longstanding MP-500 [HFN Feb ’11 and Jan ’23], demonstrated much of the moving-permalloy’s potential [see boxout], including excellent tracking ability and very low distortion, but still possessed a gently declining treble...

www.hifinews.com

View attachment 512053

Also... half a million views!! That's a lot in any audio forum. Congrats to JP and all the contributors. With reviews like the above, it's a relief to know this library exists.

I probably have viewed about 50k times, so it could be just 10 of us.

 

[eliash]

Nagaoka MP-700

This is certainly a strange one:

View attachment 512043
Here is a measurement of the MP-500 stylus on the MP-700 body:

View attachment 512044
Very similar to the MP-500 body, so the issue seems to be with the MP-700 cantilever assembly.

It is interesting that they were able to bring down 2nd harmonic distortion so much on the MP-700. Much closer to typical ML/Shibata levels.

I am really curious to know what they say, what is causing this, and if it is a defect or a design choice of some sort.

Picture of my MP-700 (on a different turntable than used for these measurements):
View attachment 512046

(Yes, two of my headshell lead colors are reversed, but they're connected properly)

Thanks for comparing MP500/700. Reason for the 10-12KHz resonance could be the wire fixture of the cantilever (acting as a string, visible in the rear opening of the stylus) .
- Please could you give it a try at different tracking forces, e.g. 1.3/1.5/1.7g to check if this changes the frequency and intensity as a proof...?
(In some German review, they mentioned sthg like changing sound characteristics by varying the stylus force by only +/- 0.1-0.2g...?)

Sorry, I am not able to do this measurement with my test records (fixed frequencies or not trustworthy), but changed the tracking force already to check if it has an influence on crosstalk, which was not the case...tracking improved though by ~10um @1.7g).

Also interesting is the channel separation/crosstalk, which is, in your case, according to spec in contrast to my and the other recent preceding measurements.
Needs to be discussed from my point of view! Any ideas anybody?

 

[DSJR]

The Goldring 1042 I had showed something like this only in the right channel:

View attachment 512067

Sorry to butt in, but isn't 2.5g rather excessive for a Goldring 1042? It's specified at 1.75g or so and usually has a 10kHz peak followed by a death drive above (from earlier reviews)

 

[mackat]

Can @essence or @mackat provide the file? I want to investigate that blip.

I am more than happy to, but it will have to wait until late tonight.

I took these on a secondary computer which I unfortunately don't have with me right now.

 

[mackat]

Sorry to butt in, but isn't 2.5g rather excessive for a Goldring 1042? It's specified at 1.75g or so and usually has a 10kHz peak followed by a death drive above (from earlier reviews)

Here is what I wrote when I posted the original measurements:

"Now for the bad: at 2.0g, this cartridge only makes it through the 50 and 60 µm bands of the Ortofon test record. At 2.5g (well outside the recommended range of 1.5-2.0g), it just barely makes it through the 70 µm band. Interestingly enough, the Audio Note IQ-III, a rebadged/upgraded variant, extends that range to 2.5g."

I was experimenting a bit with higher tracking forces to improve performance. I even tried up to 3.0g.

It did not worry me too much, due to the advanced Gyger S stylus and low compliance of the cartridge.

The peak you mention all but disappears when capacitance is very low.

 

[USER]

The Denon DL-103 I purchased in 2020 also shows this:

View attachment 512063
View attachment 512064
(Also, what on earth caused the difference in distortion between these two measurements? The second, earlier one is insanely low for a conical.)

My other 2 (used) DL-103's do not show this:

View attachment 512065
View attachment 512066
The Goldring 1042 I had showed something like this only in the right channel:

View attachment 512067

I still see the resonance on your second cartridge, but it is very much attenuated. Interesting...

 

[DSJR]

Here is what I wrote when I posted the original measurements:

"Now for the bad: at 2.0g, this cartridge only makes it through the 50 and 60 µm bands of the Ortofon test record. At 2.5g (well outside the recommended range of 1.5-2.0g), it just barely makes it through the 70 µm band. Interestingly enough, the Audio Note IQ-III, a rebadged/upgraded variant, extends that range to 2.5g."

I was experimenting a bit with higher tracking forces to improve performance. I even tried up to 3.0g.

It did not worry me too much, due to the advanced Gyger S stylus and low compliance of the cartridge.

The peak you mention all but disappears when capacitance is very low.

That still sounds to me like a bad stylus there. The ones we used to sell I'm sure, were more capable than that in tracing ability, but it was thirty years ago... They used t do well in Rega decks with 'RB' tonearms, a 1042 here sounded horrible with a one-note 'sting' up top (the 109khz peak), this with a supposedly lower capacitance exit cable (the tonearm internal wires were supposedly optimised for CD-4 back in the day.

Thanks for responding

 

[dougi]

DENON DL-103
Regarding the ~10kHz blip, my 103 that I bought to replace my 103R also has it (and poor alignment):

I accidentally dropped the 103R down the side of the platter, which resulted in HF loss, with a worse 10kHz wiggle!

 

[JP]

it is smoothed out.

I can do that too

 

[narud]

I hope you can make that exchange a return. What the f is Nagaoka doing?


Also, what the f is HIFINEWS doing? "A worthy flagship!" lol. They show the issue as well but the resolution is so low it is smoothed out. They need to get it together.

Nagaoka MP-700 cartridge Lab Report

This is a true champion of the MP genre. Nagaoka’s previous flagship, the longstanding MP-500 [HFN Feb ’11 and Jan ’23], demonstrated much of the moving-permalloy’s potential [see boxout], including excellent tracking ability and very low distortion, but still possessed a gently declining treble...

www.hifinews.com

View attachment 512053

Also... half a million views!! That's a lot in any audio forum. Congrats to JP and all the contributors. With reviews like the above, it's a relief to know this library exists.

ive been really disappointed in my nagaoka experience. my mp-500 with two different stylus assemblies demonstrated an odd smearing/distortion of hot sibilants. the same thing happened with an mp-30. out of curiosity, i bought an mp-100 and it didnt have that symptom. on the stairsteps (group that did ooh child in the early 70's) album 2nd resurrection, the second side opens up with a drum beat and the high hats sound awful on the boron cantilevered nags. here a clip showing the problem. its 5 carts. the first 3 are a v15vmr, at ml-170 and an at 45xml stylus on a 510x body. the 4th is an mp500 and the last is the mp30.

hi hat comparison 2.wav

drive.google.com

no amount of set up or tweaking could get rid of it. in general, the mp-500 didnt do as well on sibilants as my other carts, but not as glaringly bad as this particular cut. i tried that track with my other carts that have cheaper bonded styli like an m97xe or old 80's pfanstiehs and it was only the nags that made the hats sound that bad. im surprised i dont hear more reports of issues.

 

[mackat]

ive been really disappointed in my nagaoka experience. my mp-500 with two different stylus assemblies demonstrated an odd smearing/distortion of hot sibilants. the same thing happened with an mp-30. out of curiosity, i bought an mp-100 and it didnt have that symptom. on the stairsteps (group that did ooh child in the early 70's) album 2nd resurrection, the second side opens up with a drum beat and the high hats sound awful on the boron cantilevered nags. here a clip showing the problem. its 5 carts. the first 3 are a v15vmr, at ml-170 and an at 45xml stylus on a 510x body. the 4th is an mp500 and the last is the mp30.

hi hat comparison 2.wav

drive.google.com

no amount of set up or tweaking could get rid of it. in general, the mp-500 didnt do as well on sibilants as my other carts, but not as glaringly bad as this particular cut. i tried that track with my other carts that have cheaper bonded styli like an m97xe or old 80's pfanstiehs and it was only the nags that made the hats sound that bad. im surprised i dont hear more reports of issues.

Your link is broken, it's not set to public

 

[mackat]

My biggest issue with Nagaoka carts is the random, sharp static ticks that seemingly appear out of nowhere (and can be very uncomfortable when listening on headphones).

One of the claims about the MP-700: "The shielded case and cartridge frame are made from ultra-duralumin (a copper-aluminium alloy), which is further treated with a triple layer of nickel plating, black tin plating and an insulating coating – all of which aims to protect it against static interference, heat, wear and tear, and ensure the exterior’s longevity."

This has proven false, in my case. I have noticed obvious static ticks in my short time listening to the MP-700.

Seemingly no different to my MP-500, first MP-200, or the MP-200 I picked up used recently.

This seems to be a problem very specific to Nagaoka, and I don't understand how a high-end company that has the engineering capability to produce well-measuring cartridges (MP-500) hasn't found a solution to it yet.

 

[narud]

Your link is broken, it's not set to public

thanks! let me know if its fixed when you get a chance.

 

[mackat]

thanks! let me know if its fixed when you get a chance.

It is

 

[essence]

My biggest issue with Nagaoka carts is the random, sharp static ticks that seemingly appear out of nowhere (and can be very uncomfortable when listening on headphones).

One of the claims about the MP-700: "The shielded case and cartridge frame are made from ultra-duralumin (a copper-aluminium alloy), which is further treated with a triple layer of nickel plating, black tin plating and an insulating coating – all of which aims to protect it against static interference, heat, wear and tear, and ensure the exterior’s longevity."

This has proven false, in my case. I have noticed obvious static ticks in my short time listening to the MP-700.

I think I'm having the same issue.

mp700 aaaaa | essence

essence.gg

Tried making a comparison highlighting the issue. Only post processing done in Audacity is time alignment + normalization.

Spoiler: results

track a is oc9xml and b is mp700