Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[Jimi Floyd]

@narud
1) nevermind, I didn't explain correctly myself first.
2) here are the measurements for stylus #0 (the old style) and stylus #1 (the '93 vintage) just taken now in the same conditions one after another:

This is #0:

This is #1:

Differences seem minor: channel gain is swapped, left channel of #1 is a bit lower in the treble, #1 has some enhancement of bass frequencies and both show a lightly downward slope, every difference being however within 1 max 2 dB it seems. I am hesitating to measure stylus #2 not to damage the test record, I probably will do at a friend's place raising the arm base.

 

[Thomas_A]

I wonder why the xtalk is so much better on that than the x40. Could that be an alignment issue? Just trying to learn.

Some stuff are still not easy to grasp when it comes to x-talk. Clearly it is affected by azimuth (which is L and R level and phase matching) but also by VTF (absolute levels). Still cartridges differ quite a bit which is probably generator design and accuracy. And x-talk which is poor on the TRS-1007 can be excellent on the Ortofon record, and vice versa. Some cartridges show lowest crosstalk at 45°, others at 42° groove angle.

 

[aaaakkkk]

Some stuff are still not easy to grasp when it comes to x-talk. Clearly it is affected by azimuth (which is L and R level and phase matching) but also by VTF (absolute levels). Still cartridges differ quite a bit which is probably generator design and accuracy. And x-talk which is poor on the TRS-1007 can be excellent on the Ortofon record, and vice versa. Some cartridges show lowest crosstalk at 45°, others at 42° groove angle.

I think it depends on how the diamond is mounted in the cantilever. If it's mounted at the correct SRA angle of 92, then crosstalk on the CA-TRS-1007 will be around 20-25 dB, but at SRA of 90 or less, it's 25-30 dB. The Ortofon-TR shows maximum separation at SRA of 92-94. So if your cartridge shows poor separation on the CA-TRS-1007, measure it with the Ortofon-TR

 

[aaaakkkk]

have you had any shure styli with those observed scenarios measure out of spec like this? its so odd and interesting because i think im up to about 9 or 10 copies of vn5mrs and none of them are that out. maybe + or - 2db from flat max. theyve come from all different parts of the US and a couple from Japan. lots of different climates and storage conditions. some in boxes from peoples collections, some from carts in peoples part drawers. some from carts mounted on tables left in someones garage since the 80's.

I have other, non-Shure cartridges that even show +12, only because their damper has cracked or fallen apart. Most likely, your damper has dried out and the cantilever has sunk inward, but there's also a tension wire that no longer holds the cantilever in place, causing it to move in strange ways inside.

 

[Thomas_A]

I think it depends on how the diamond is mounted in the cantilever. If it's mounted at the correct SRA angle of 92, then crosstalk on the CA-TRS-1007 will be around 20-25 dB, but at SRA of 90 or less, it's 25-30 dB. The Ortofon-TR shows maximum separation at SRA of 92-94. So if your cartridge shows poor separation on the CA-TRS-1007, measure it with the Ortofon-TR

Some things happen at least but here only one channel x-talk

Fun with vinyl measurements

the purpose remains the music if it is not heard what is the point? ;-) (on very demanding music and trained and demanding listeners for example... for many factual reasons, the piano often comes back ;-))

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[narud]

I have other, non-Shure cartridges that even show +12, only because their damper has cracked or fallen apart. Most likely, your damper has dried out and the cantilever has sunk inward, but there's also a tension wire that no longer holds the cantilever in place, causing it to move in strange ways inside.

what carts have you experienced that type of rise? how do they track otherwise? is there anything visual you notice when playing a record? any low riding or so stiff that it doesnt move? ive had other carts with funky suspensions, but they have always have had at least a couple symptoms that were obvious.

 

[aaaakkkk]

what carts have you experienced that type of rise? how do they track otherwise? is there anything visual you notice when playing a record? any low riding or so stiff that it doesnt move? ive had other carts with funky suspensions, but they have always have had at least a couple symptoms that were obvious.

Here is one of my experiments as an example.

 

[narud]

Here is one of my experiments as an example.

did this have any damper issues or was this from simply moving the cantilever?

 

[narud]

Shure V15Vmr/Jico SAS/B

stumbled into another jico sas/b for the v15vmr body. this time its one of the newer (but maybe not newest) production runs. its in this packaging.

my last couple were in the older packaging. this one still says stereo across the brush assembly and not vn5mr. i was hoping this would perform like some of the recent posts that have come up, but this one is still pretty hot in the highs and could use a different load. 1.25 grams. forgot to change the pre in the info line. this is using the puffin and not the artdjpre as listed in the graph.

 

[aaaakkkk]

did this have any damper issues or was this from simply moving the cantilever?

There were no problems with the damper, it was just the movement of the cantilever.

 

[aaaakkkk]

Shure V15Vmr/Jico SAS/B

stumbled into another jico sas/b for the v15vmr body. this time its one of the newer (but maybe not newest) production runs. its in this packaging.
View attachment 488836
my last couple were in the older packaging. this one still says stereo across the brush assembly and not vn5mr. i was hoping this would perform like some of the recent posts that have come up, but this one is still pretty hot in the highs and could use a different load. 1.25 grams. forgot to change the pre in the info line. this is using the puffin and not the artdjpre as listed in the graph.
View attachment 488837

jico's suspension is the same in expensive cartridges, and it's not the same as the original shure. jico has an annular magnet, a round damper and a wire that creates tension, in much the same way as this node is arranged for MC cartridges, for example, the denon 103. If the wire is not stretched, then there will be such a peak, if it is tightened, then there will be a flat response. In cheap jico, the cantilever has a rod magnet at the end of it, and it is simply inserted into the damper.

You can easily check how your wire is stretched, see which VTF is needed to pass the tracking at 50-60-70-80-90-100 microns, on the Ortofon test recording

For example, the EDA-101 frequency response cartridge had to be disassembled to understand the cause of its frequency response.

The damper had sagged, the tension control unit had jammed, and the wire could not be tensioned.
I took a photo of the cartridge from the internet, by DELTA667

 

[narud]

jico's suspension is the same in expensive cartridges, and it's not the same as the original shure. jico has an annular magnet, a round damper and a wire that creates tension, in much the same way as this node is arranged for MC cartridges, for example, the denon 103. If the wire is not stretched, then there will be such a peak, if it is tightened, then there will be a flat response. In cheap jico, the cantilever has a rod magnet at the end of it, and it is simply inserted into the damper.

You can easily check how your wire is stretched, see which VTF is needed to pass the tracking at 50-60-70-80-90-100 microns, on the Ortofon test recording

interesting. i wonder if the newer one that @Thomas_A has a higher tensioned wire?

 

[aaaakkkk]

interesting. i wonder if the newer one that @Thomas_A has a higher tensioned wire?

You can always measure it, it's either tensioned wire or a stiffer damper, but if you both have a new damper, then it probably has the same stiffness.

 

[Danish ear]

Tonar 1276.
Previously measured. Trying to see what nearly minimum capacity loading does to the old OM (non super) body. 20pF plus 120 in the cable.

 

[Balle Clorin]

what is is supposed to be a replacement for ? 1276 does not tell much..

 

[Danish ear]

what is is supposed to be a replacement for ? 1276 does not tell much..

OM10 or 20.

 

[USER]

He's back. I'll get him removed. Just ignore him. Update: he's gone.

Aero, Quando, whatever else: please get some help.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Benz Micro Ruby Z .From Davey on SHF, did not find it posted here..

First time I have seen a high end cartridge without flaws( considering the record used)

 

[JP]

Why the whole page?

 

[Thomas_A]

Ask Davey to download it.