Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[Jimi Floyd]

or how about you go search through all of my posts and go check out all of the different carts ive measured before assuming my measurement chain has problems.

I have seen them all or almost all, you do a terrific job and I fully trust you, but you know sometimes something can be off, one switch in the wrong position, a different sample rate, a mistake in some filename.... It may happen, it happens to me from time to time. Fact is that plot for the VN35MR is so different from everything else measured on other samples of the same kind that several hypotheses can be done and there's nothing wrong with it. Peace.

 

[morillon]

with a very unscientific finger wiggle test, it feels just as supple to movement in every direction as my currently in use vn5mr. i tried that with a vn5he with a hardened suspension and the cantilever broke down at the magnet. this performs as well as my vn5mr's and new audio technica styli on the 300hz tracks of the hifi news record. if there's anything else you suggest looking for, im willing to try it.

While I can't guarantee its effectiveness, I personally treated my olds suspension rubbers with "Sonax Gummipfleger". ;-)

 

[USER]

For whatever its worth, all my hardened suspensions have caused FR to droop in my Audio-Technica cartridges. Obviously this is a Shure stylus so it could be different. My Shure also shows a similar tendency. It would be useful to take pictures of the cantilever shaft. (Is it a "telescoped" cantilever?) That seems to be a major resonance, which to me points elsewhere. When it comes to situations like this I find that such a cartridge was usually sold for a reason...

Here's an example of a before and after (Sonax Gummipfleger).

Here's a "low-rider" Shure with dead suspension.

As mentioned the other two measurements on here match.

I'm trying to see if Stereo Review has measurements but is it just me or is worldradiohistory more difficult to navigate these days?



Addendum: found official measurements of the AT155LC, which you also posted. Here the difference seems to primarily be capacitance and test record.

 

[mglobe]

Ortofon MC X20
New when measured. I don't like the sound of the cart. Partly because of the resonances @2-3kHz. I did not try to dial it in due to the performance.


View attachment 486657View attachment 486658View attachment 486659View attachment 486660

I wonder why the xtalk is so much better on that than the x40. Could that be an alignment issue? Just trying to learn.

 

[narud]

While I can't guarantee its effectiveness, I personally treated my olds suspension rubbers with "Sonax Gummipfleger". ;-)

id like some more insight on how to check the damper before blindly treating it. like i said, it feels supple and tracks the 300hz tracks cleanly. the styli ive had with issues havent done that.

 

[narud]

For whatever its worth, all my hardened suspensions have caused FR to droop in my Audio-Technica cartridges. Obviously this is a Shure stylus so it could be different. It would be useful to take pictures of the cantilever shaft. (Is it a "telescoped" cantilever?) That seems to be a major resonance, which to me points elsewhere. When it comes to situations like this I find that such a cartridge was usually sold for a reason...

Here's an example of a before and after (Sonax Gummipfleger).
View attachment 486935View attachment 486936

Here's a "low-rider" Shure with dead suspension.

View attachment 486947

As mentioned the other two measurements on here match.

View attachment 486937View attachment 486938
I'm trying to see if Stereo Review has measurements but is it just me or is worldradiohistory more difficult to navigate these days?


Addendum: found official measurements of the AT155LC. Difference seems to primarily be capacitance and test record.
View attachment 486953

theres also a measurement here of a 35e with a 3db rise in the highs and thats supposed to measure flat as well.

 

[JP]

A mode where the elastomer is sufficiently hardened would exhibit poor tracking at low test frequencies like 300Hz, of course. I'm curious about other modes where the elastomer is otherwise degraded and the effect at HF, where it's a damper rather than a compliance.

 

[narud]

i re-ran this at 1.25 grams instead of 1 gram and it had a marginal effect.

and heres pics of the stylus.

 

[narud]

A mode where the elastomer is sufficiently hardened would exhibit poor tracking at low test frequencies like 300Hz, of course. I'm curious about other modes where the elastomer is otherwise degraded and the effect at HF, where it's a damper rather than a compliance.

is there anyway to check for that? i had that 150mlx stylus i posted here that skyrocketed to a 7db rise at 20k but never could figure that one out either. the guy who bought it loved it!

 

[JP]

Without are reference to compare, I don't know. There are compliance test tracks, and at a point you think the Fres would change. Haven't thought through it - I leave that stuff to you guys nowadays.

 

[dlaloum]

While I can't guarantee its effectiveness, I personally treated my olds suspension rubbers with "Sonax Gummipfleger". ;-)

You can also try "Oil of Wintergreen" also known as Methyl Salicylate... which has been used for decades as a rubber/elastomer restorer - but keep in mind there are many different elastomers that have been used in stylus suspensions, with differing formulations, some will respond to wintergreen oil, others won't. The stylus manufacturers have never published information on the elastomers, and they have definitely varied their elastomers within their own production... sometimes even within the same model/series.

 

[USER]

i re-ran this at 1.25 grams instead of 1 gram and it had a marginal effect.
View attachment 487004

and heres pics of the stylus.
View attachment 487006View attachment 487007View attachment 487008

Have you tried playing with insertion? (No pun intended.) Sometimes I have found that on some Shure cartridge bodies the stylus can go in too deep (Again...) and the cantilever hits up against the body of the cartridge. (Ugh.) I'm too tired to word this better, lol.

 

[JP]

What forum am I on?

 

[narud]

Have you tried playing with insertion? (No pun intended.) Sometimes I have found that on some Shure cartridge bodies the stylus can go in too deep (Again...) and the cantilever hits up against the body of the cartridge. (Ugh.) I'm too tired to word this better, lol.

i tried pulling it out a bit but lost the right channel in doing so. i ran the left and it didnt have any effect.

 

[melloncolliecat]

My Acutex LPM 320 with 315 stylus kinda looks like that, 6 dB peak somewhere above 15kHz, but also super bad crosstalk (-12 / -15 dB w CA-TRS-1007 @ 1kHz). It is microphonic as hell and when I lower it on the record, the cantilever hardly moves at all. Some five weeks ago, I decided to go down the WD40 route but may have applied a li'l too much. Peak went up to around 13 dB. Tried again today and peak is about the same. Also tried pulling it out, output got about 10 dB quieter but no difference in the peaks.

 

[narud]

Shure V15 Type III MR

View attachment 372529

• Turntable: Thorens TD124, arm: SME 3009 series 2 improved (fixed headshell)
• Tracking force: 1.05g
• Stylus VN35MR has currently 128 playing hours on it
• Cartridge is from 1976, stylus is from 2000
• Phono stage: Pro-Ject Phono Box RS2
  • 100 pF / 47kΩ on phono stage, thus 250pF total capacitance, including cables
  • other graphs with 200pF, 300pF, 350pF total capacitance available
• Cable capacitance: 150pF (arm included)
  • Measured by user Barry at The Art of Sound
• ADC: MiniDsp SHD connected with USB to computer (Mac)
• Test record: CA TRS-1007 #2 Side B, tracks 1 & 2. This was the 2nd measurement using this side of this record
• Note: the blue crosstalk dip at 6-9 kHz is not there in a measurement I did using side A of the same record

The cartridge:
View attachment 372531

Azimuth setting method, using an L-shaped piece of paper.....
View attachment 372532

This is the first measurement I am posting in this thread. Please be kind. My deepest thanks go to the script author Scott Wurcer, to @JP and @USER for starting the two threads which taught me how to use it making my dream of measuring my cartridges' frequency response come true.

just seeing that your copy of this stylus that you measured looks like its from a different production era. that one is pictured in the 88-89 shure styli guide. the insert that came with mine has a copyright date of 1993. have you measured your other 35mr's? dont you have some that look like the one i posted? im curious is maybe something changed in dampers over the years.

 

[aaaakkkk]

i tried pulling it out a bit but lost the right channel in doing so. i ran the left and it didnt have any effect.

It has a rather complex damper design, there are many possible scenarios that could have happened: the tension wire could have broken, the damper could have fallen apart, etc.

 

[Jimi Floyd]

just seeing that your copy of this stylus that you measured looks like its from a different production era. that one is pictured in the 88-89 shure styli guide. the insert that came with mine has a copyright date of 1993. have you measured your other 35mr's? dont you have some that look like the one i posted? im curious is maybe something changed in dampers over the years.

Hello Narud,

I have 2 VN35MR which look like yours:

Both bought years ago as NOS, one from TurntableNeedles.com whose insert says 1993 [let's call it #1], the other from Italy whose box and insert say 1985 (?) [let's call it #2]. So #1 should be the same vintage as yours. I mounted them and what I noticed is that both ride lower than the one for which I already published the measurement you quote [let's call that #0], this being more evident for #2 than for #1

This is #0 (my reference):

This is #1:

This is #2

I never tried to listen to them or measure. I think the elastomer of #2 is not in good conditions for some reason, but I can measure #1, the '93 one, and report back.

I have seen the beautiful pictures you post, which microscope are you using? cheers

 

[narud]

Hello Narud,

I have 2 VN35MR which look like yours:

View attachment 487267

Both bought years ago as NOS, one from TurntableNeedles.com whose insert says 1993 [let's call it #1], the other from Italy whose box and insert say 1985 (?) [let's call it #2]. So #1 should be the same vintage as yours. I mounted them and what I noticed is that both ride lower than the one for which I already published the measurement you quote [let's call that #0], this being more evident for #2 than for #1

This is #0 (my reference):
View attachment 487273

This is #1:
View attachment 487274

This is #2View attachment 487275

I never tried to listen to them or measure. I think the elastomer of #2 is not in good conditions for some reason, but I can measure #1, the '93 one, and report back.

I have seen the beautiful pictures you post, which microscope are you using? cheers

first off, i want to apologize for my curtness in my previous response. im trying to not do that on forums anymore and thats my fault.

second, if you have ever find yourself having the time, id be very interested in the measurements from both, including the one that has a sagging suspension. if that one has degraded in some way, im curious if the degradation is effecting frequency response in any way.

the microscope is a shure sek-2. ive seen the swift student microscope that this is based off of go for super cheap on ebay, but this one was on reverb and wasnt going to need for me to rig any lighting or moveable stage so i pulled the trigger on it.

 

[narud]

It has a rather complex damper design, there are many possible scenarios that could have happened: the tension wire could have broken, the damper could have fallen apart, etc.

have you had any shure styli with those observed scenarios measure out of spec like this? its so odd and interesting because i think im up to about 9 or 10 copies of vn5mrs and none of them are that out. maybe + or - 2db from flat max. theyve come from all different parts of the US and a couple from Japan. lots of different climates and storage conditions. some in boxes from peoples collections, some from carts in peoples part drawers. some from carts mounted on tables left in someones garage since the 80's.