Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[wpbilderback]

Shure V15 type iii with VN35E stylus

Notes:
Stylus is an original Shure "Super-Track 'Plus'" elliptical in NOS condition.

 

[dougi]

Shure V15 type iii with VN35E stylus
View attachment 471047
Notes:
Stylus is an original Shure "Super-Track 'Plus'" elliptical in NOS condition.

What is interesting is how relatively smooth the distortion plots are compared with other stylii and other carts.

 

[narud]

Audio Technica M14LC/U P-mount cart

this is one of the various renamed audio technica p mounts. its the solid core generator with a stylus assembly that has a tapered aluminum cantilever and a bonded linear contact diamond. spec wise it looks similar to an at-122lp. im not sure of the chronology though. i was most curious to see what the diamond looked like on this. the 132ep has a nude ogura .2x.7 elliptical and the nude linear contacts from this era look like shibatas. i have a 122ep which is a nude .3x.7 elliptical and it looks much more crude than the ogura and looks similar to whats currently on the vm95en's i have. it performs decently on the hifinews and shure era v tracking tests, but its definitely not in the same league as the top at carts with regard to tracking/tracing. i dont know what im looking at with this diamond, so if anyone has any input as to what cut it is, dimensions or who manufactured it, id love to know!

 

[Balle Clorin]

Pretty perfect crosstalk symmetry! And on that record… impressive

 

[wpbilderback]

Shure V15 type III with Jico VN35MRB II "Basie" stylus

Notes: This is a follow-up the the measurement I posted for the Shure V15 type III with a NOS Shure VN35E stylus. This Jico stylus features a micro-ridge cut diamond nude mounted to an aluminum alloy cantilever. It was from a limited run of 1,000 and is sold out on Jico's website, but it is still available in the U.S. through LPGear (they are selling it for less on eBay for unknown reasons, and that's where I purchased mine).

I've not seen any measurements for this stylus online. My understanding is that it was an attempt to recreate, as accurately as possible, the sound of Shure's V35MR micro-ridge stylus. Never having heard one, I can't say if they succeeded or not.

I apologize for the low-quality photos; they are the best I could muster. Mounting looks good to me — centered and straight.

I was a little disappointed with these results, with stereo separation coming in at under 20dB, where the Shure elliptical stylus measured over 25dB. The frequency response is also not as flat, with a 3.5 dB boost around 15kHz and a rolloff after that.

I did manage to get a flatter frequency response by loading the cart down to 38kΩ. I'm too old to hear the rolloff above 15kHz anyway.

 

[narud]

Shure V15 type III with Jico VN35MRB II "Basie" stylus
View attachment 472767
View attachment 472768View attachment 472769
Notes: This is a follow-up the the measurement I posted for the Shure V15 type III with a NOS Shure VN35E stylus. This Jico stylus features a micro-ridge cut diamond nude mounted to an aluminum alloy cantilever. It was from a limited run of 1,000 and is sold out on Jico's website, but it is still available in the U.S. through LPGear (they are selling it for less on eBay for unknown reasons, and that's where I purchased mine).

I've not seen any measurements for this stylus online. My understanding is that it was an attempt to recreate, as accurately as possible, the sound of Shure's V35MR micro-ridge stylus. Never having heard one, I can't say if they succeeded or not.

I apologize for the low-quality photos; they are the best I could muster. Mounting looks good to me — centered and straight.

I was a little disappointed with these results, with stereo separation coming in at under 20dB, where the Shure elliptical stylus measured over 25dB. The frequency response is also not as flat, with a 3.5 dB boost around 15kHz and a rolloff after that.

I did manage to get a flatter frequency response by loading the cart down to 38kΩ. I'm too old to hear the rolloff above 15kHz anyway.
View attachment 472772

i had one of these a while back before i started using the script. it sounded bright to my ears so i sold it. nice to finally see what the response looks like.

 

[Thomas_A]

Shure V15 type III with Jico VN35MRB II "Basie" stylus
View attachment 472767
View attachment 472768View attachment 472769
Notes: This is a follow-up the the measurement I posted for the Shure V15 type III with a NOS Shure VN35E stylus. This Jico stylus features a micro-ridge cut diamond nude mounted to an aluminum alloy cantilever. It was from a limited run of 1,000 and is sold out on Jico's website, but it is still available in the U.S. through LPGear (they are selling it for less on eBay for unknown reasons, and that's where I purchased mine).

I've not seen any measurements for this stylus online. My understanding is that it was an attempt to recreate, as accurately as possible, the sound of Shure's V35MR micro-ridge stylus. Never having heard one, I can't say if they succeeded or not.

I apologize for the low-quality photos; they are the best I could muster. Mounting looks good to me — centered and straight.

I was a little disappointed with these results, with stereo separation coming in at under 20dB, where the Shure elliptical stylus measured over 25dB. The frequency response is also not as flat, with a 3.5 dB boost around 15kHz and a rolloff after that.

I did manage to get a flatter frequency response by loading the cart down to 38kΩ. I'm too old to hear the rolloff above 15kHz anyway.
View attachment 472772

The 38k, what capacitances did you test except for 475 pF?

 

[wpbilderback]

The 38k, what capacitances did you test except for 475 pF?

None. I might try reducing it to see if it flattens it a bit further without creating a dip in the 5-10kHz region.

 

[Thomas_A]

None. I might try reducing it to see if it flattens it a bit further without creating a dip in the 5-10kHz region.

Note though that the CBS dips a bit 5-20 kHz vs the TRS-1007/CA-TRS1007. 250 pF/38k should be ok.

 

[narud]

Note though that the CBS dips a bit 5-20 kHz vs the TRS-1007/CA-TRS1007. 250 pF/38k should be ok.

are there any jp plots somewhere comparing the jvc record to the cbs and clearaudio? maybe buried over at vinylengine or something?

 

[narud]

Shure M97XE- a tale of two styli. 1.75g (brush down), art djpre on 200pf setting, techincs sl-1300mk2

less wear- jico bonded elliptical

more wear-oem

jico bonded elliptical-less wear

oem-more wear

just picked up a package with two m97xe's mounted on technics shells. for these tests, i just used one of the cart bodies and swapped the styli. i cant figure out what the heck is going on with the newer of the two styli. i wasnt expecting a high end peak like that. the stylus with more wear measures like what i was expecting. is this the shure lack of quality control thats so often talked about when it comes to the late era carts? if not, this is quite the extreme case of sample to sample variation.

*edit* mystery solved and it turns out im a moron. the stylus with less wear is a jico bonded elliptical. i totally didnt pay attention to the brush assembly as i must have been in too much of a rush to get them measured. i just double checked both styli on the technics jig and thankfully the cantilevers are both the same length and the diamond is in the same spot. i apologize for not being more careful before posting.

jico-

oem-

 

[Thomas_A]

are there any jp plots somewhere comparing the jvc record to the cbs and clearaudio? maybe buried over at vinylengine or something?

CBS vs CA-TRS-1007

Post in thread 'Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library'

Jul 2, 2023

Shure V15 V-MR
Click to increase size

Notes

• As good as it gets!
  • Essentially flat at ±0.5 dB
    • I would ignore the waviness of the left channel highs and follow the peaks
      • Each test record has its pressing problems
• Lightly used, micro-ridge stylus with beryllium cantilever and dynamic stabilizer brush
• Denon DP-35F has a servo tonearm
  • Compare results at 20Hz with one below to possibly see effect on resonance
• Recorded with Wayne Kirkwood Flat MM Phono...

• USER

• 

 

[mackat]

AT-ML140 LC-OFC:

Original stylus with unknown hours, seemingly low wear:

I recently purchased an ATN-ML140 in the original box, assumed NOS.

The diamond appears shorter vertically than the other; I'm not sure if this it really is or if it's just mounted differently.

Could be from the time of the later production OCC model, but I have no evidence either way.

This one I normalized as there's a bit more of a channel imbalance, unfortunately. Much flatter response, though:

Here's the same stylus on an AT-ML180 LC-OFC body: (Edit, fixed)

A bit off-topic, but I noticed the frequency response is nearly identical to the VM745xML loaded at 28.8k:

 

[wpbilderback]

Shure V15 type III with Jico VN-35HE SAS/B (boron) stylus

Notes:
I decided to order a Jico SAS boron stylus from LP Gear for my Shure V15 type III cartridge, in part because I wanted to stock up in advance of possible price increases. So now you can see the results with an original NOS Shure VN35E stylus, a Jico VN35MRB II "Basie" stylus, and now a Jico VN-35HE SAS/B (boron) stylus on the same cartridge with the same setup.

I managed to get a flatter response from the combo by dropping the resistance to 38kΩ and the capacitance to 325pf. I actually got the best results at this setting with all three styli, including the original Shure one.

 

[narud]

Shure V15 type III with Jico VN-35HE SAS/B (boron) stylus
View attachment 475256
Notes:
I decided to order a Jico SAS boron stylus from LP Gear for my Shure V15 type III cartridge, in part because I wanted to stock up in advance of possible price increases. So now you can see the results with an original NOS Shure VN35E stylus, a Jico VN35MRB II "Basie" stylus, and now a Jico VN-35HE SAS/B (boron) stylus on the same cartridge with the same setup.

I managed to get a flatter response from the combo by dropping the resistance to 38kΩ and the capacitance to 325pf. I actually got the best results at this setting with all three styli, including the original Shure one.
View attachment 475257

with the sas/b, did you try 47k and lower capacitance at all? maybe somewhere in the 100-200 range?

 

[narud]

Jico Neo SAS SAS/S Shure M97xe and V15Vxmr bodies

This is the sapphire cantilever version of the jico sas. it came in box labeled for the m97xe, but the v15vxmr is the same shank size and im sure theyre not tuning the suspensions any different for the two versions. the v15vxmr body is lower inductance than the m97xe. i could have tested this in the m97he body, but that has the highest inductance of all three large shank bodies and would have just rolled off even earlier than the xe.

 

[wpbilderback]

with the sas/b, did you try 47k and lower capacitance at all? maybe somewhere in the 100-200 range?

I did. The flattest response was with 475pf capacitance (350pf from the preamp + 125pf from the cabling). The treble was lifted more in the 10kHz - 20kHz region at lower settings, although not by a lot.

 

[narud]

Audio Technica ML170

80pf

180pf

This looks to measure slightly different than the ml150 i posted earlier. That stylus is beryllium while this is a boron tube. the 170 had a slight rise and than rolloff and measured best at 80pf (probably slightly more, but the pre is on the "0" pf setting). this one is more linear and can use more capacitance. This was advertised as being used for 10 hours and the microridge under the scope still looks totally curved from the front view and the top down the contact patches are still very far apart so i believe this one is as advertised.

 

[wpbilderback]

Shure V15-RS with NOS VNSE3HE stylus

Notes: The VNSE3HE stylus is the one that originally came with the Shure V15-RS (Radio Shack) cartridge. It is a hyper-elliptical (HE) stylus as opposed to the micro-ridge (MR) stylus that came as standard equipment with the similar V15VxMR, but it does have a rolled beryllium cantilever like its more expensive brethren. I obtained a NOS VNSE3HE stylus essentially for free when purchasing some other stuff, but didn't have a V15-RS to match it. I recently obtained one at a reasonable price, so I could see how it performs. It droops in the upper treble, and I suspect, like the V15VxMR, it was tuned for a "warmer" sound. I'll post some related results at a later time that some might find interesting.

 

[narud]

Technics epc-310mc

Technics epc-310mc

I picked this up used and the diamond is definitely showing some wear. im not familiar with these .2x.7 ellipticals, so im not sure how many hours are left. i couldnt really get a front view of the diamond using the sek-2 because of how tall the cart is.

table is a technics sl-qx300. cables have about 100pf. the phono stage was an emotiva xps-1 set to 470 ohms. its got 220pf of input capacitance.