Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[acd]

Nagaoka MP-500 & Audio Technica Art 9 azimuth "headshell slack" experiments.

What I mean is that I can rotate the headshell a tiny bit clockwise/anticlockwise in the bayonet connection and then tighten.

The question is - do these tiny rotational changes matter, i.e. are the measurements affected?

MP-500:
Headshell rotated anticlockwise - i.e. within the slack of the bayonet connection seen from the front.

Headshell rotated clockwise - i.e. within the slack of the bayonet connection seen from the front.

Headshell "centred" - i.e. within the slack of the bayonet connection seen from the front.

Art 9
Headshell rotated anticlockwise - i.e. within the slack of the bayonet connection seen from the front.

Headshell rotated clockwise - i.e. within the slack of the bayonet connection seen from the front.

Headshell "centred" - i.e. within the slack of the bayonet connection seen from the front.

Notes / comments:
I don't know whether this is the thread for this kind of posts. Please notify me if not.

The results show that relatively small azimuth changes affect the measurements. So how to preserve the "previous azimuth setting" (and your very fine measurements) when a cartridge sitting in its headshell is re-mounted?

The Korf bayonet connection (1210G) has less slack and "tightens" better compared to the Technics bayonet connection (1300G). I use Korf headshells with two spacers for both cartridges.

The above is now my procedure for dialing in the azimuth. The problem is, of course, how to preserve an azimuth setting. In addition, for these two cases, anti-clockwise vs clockwise rotation swapped the best cross-talk channel and then the "best" azimuth setting is between the two extremes. I assume that sometimes headshells/cartridges must be rotated by other means in order to see the channel swapping within the slack of the bayonet connection.

 

[USER]

I don't know whether this is the thread for this kind of posts. Please notify me if not.

I have quite of few loading and set-up posts sprinkled throughout the library and find them useful. As long as you are succinct and clear about what you are doing and in your conclusions at the very start I have no problem with these here. I would like to see a proper post title in bold so that your efforts don't get lost in a day or two and, more importantly, so that they can be found via websearch.

Might I recommend pictures of the headshell and set-up so that we better understand what you are doing and how your system might differ from more traditional ones?
I also find .gifs incredibly helpful in clarifying the respective phenomena observed. I use this site to make them:

Animated GIF Maker

Online GIF maker where you can create animated GIFs, banners, slideshows from sequence of images. Upload frames and make a GIF or merge and edit existing GIFs

ezgif.com

I generally aggregate the conclusions in "the guidebook" section of the thread or sometimes add special sections to the index.

Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

Skip to the index. After years of development we are finally launching our phono cartridge measurement library. These measurements were created using the brilliant cartridge response python script, SJPlot, written by the legendary @scott wurcer and @JP. Information about its origins can be...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[mackat]

Looks pretty much as expected to me except the clockwise MP-500 measurement - I wonder if a piece of dust caused that.

 

[acd]

Looks pretty much as expected to me except the clockwise MP-500 measurement - I wonder if a piece of dust caused that.

May be, but I am not sure. I have seen the same behaviour once before when I looked at the cross-feed option of Classic Audio MM Pro, i.e.:

I also measured 120 and Off.
120:

Off:

Note - At the time I didn't know that the impedance of MM Pro is 50kOhm. I have the data, by the way, but didn't rerun for this post.

 

[aaaakkkk]

Audio-Technica AT-F2

- stylus ~ 120hrs (looks new)
- tracking at 1.8g~95mkm
- tracking at 2.0g~100mkm

 

[mackat]

Yamaha MC-501

Purchased from Japan, unknown hours. Please note that this was captured through an MM phono stage.

Wish I had won the MC-505 that I saw the next day!

 

[USER]

Yamaha MC-501

Purchased from Japan, unknown hours. Please note that this was captured through an MM phono stage.

Wish I had won the MC-505 that I saw the next day!

View attachment 467173
View attachment 467175View attachment 467176

If you have the manual, does it include a FR graph? I'm going to assume you got the cartridge from Japan because I have quite a few that show similar cantilever oxidation (I am assuming that is what it is) and accumulation. Also assuming that this is the result of high humidity and general bad storage conditions over there back in the day. I've always wondered how much this affects the cantilever mass and if it consequently affects the FR.

 

[mackat]

If you have the manual, does it include a FR graph? I'm going to assume you got the cartridge from Japan because I have quite a few that show similar cantilever oxidation (I am assuming that is what it is) and accumulation. Also assuming that this is the result of high humidity and general bad storage conditions over there back in the day. I've always wondered how much this affects the cantilever mass and if it consequently affects the FR.

I don’t have a physical copy of the manual. I found it on VinylEngine, but it doesn’t contain any graphs.

That is definitely an interesting question!

 

[USER]

I don’t have a physical copy of the manual. I found it on VinylEngine, but it doesn’t contain any graphs.

That is definitely an interesting question!

Some I have managed to clean up a bit with alcohol diluted with distilled water. Very nerve-wracking. Seems like some of it is crystal formation. I'm sure someone here can better explain this phenomenon.

On some I can only reach the underside. Both of these are AT cartridges from Japan.

I always clean up and take pictures of my purchases before anything else. You never know what you actually have given the scale and test records are precious. The second one was NOS. Boy was I relieved I took pictures first. (I always take side, overhead, and straightaway shots.)

This is why I always include pictures with my measurements. A lot can be left unsaid regarding odd results such as FR channel mismatches. This following one is barely off center, but is this enough to screw things up with FR and/or crosstalk? This raises a lot of questions like, do I set-up according to CA TRS-1007 or via classic manual set-up techniques? Is utilizing measurements the best approach to compensate for any such issues? If so how do we gain confidence in a protocol for this use?

Is this (poor) design why we get so many different Denon DL-103/R results? Don't use Zero Dust with this one (or in general), folks!

Phew. That was cathartic!

 

[mackat]

I also have a number of cartridges from Japan with similar looking cantilevers.

I can’t say that I’ve been able to see an obvious effect in my measurements - most of them measure perfectly well.

I don’t doubt that it could potentially cause issues, but I would think it would have to be quite severe to be immediately apparent.

I need to invest in a good way to photograph styli - all I have is a cheap $10 digital microscope from Amazon, which doesn’t let you see much.

The photos I posted were from the original listing.

 

[mwj]

A couple of days ago I measured my Grado Timbre Sonata 3 vs. my AT VM95SH. Trying to trace down why I subjectively find the Grado a bit unnerving at times. While I posted the sweep based frequency responses already I wanted to find out what this means to music. So here is some analysis based on music program. Namely 85 seconds of Dire Straits - Money For Nothing of MoFi 45rpm edition. Recorded at 24bit, 96Khz.

Three things catch my attention:

• First some 5db high frequency boost of the Grado in what REW calls the brilliance range. Guess my ears are still good enough to be picky about this...
• Second the lesser dampening on the Grado with +7db at the 9Hz resonance peak.
• The Grado goes beyond well beyond the audible range.
  
  
  

 

[mischa]

Hello
I hope i can ask a few questions here in this fantastic Forum.

Is something wrong with my setup?
Have somebody measured the Replacement Stylus from JICO?
Do i need a special Phono preamp
for this low output MM cartridge?

Technics EPC 205 C II L .

Original Stylus EPS 205 EX
In pretty good shape.
Output 2,2 mV (direct from the Turntable RCA Cable)

Jico SAS/B EPS 205 Ex
New
Output only 1,4 mV

Both measured with a true RMS DMM (Bryman BM235)
and a Ortofon Test Record.
1000Hz 5cm/sec rms



Thank you

 

[mackat]

Hello
I hope i can ask a few questions here in this fantastic Forum.

Is something wrong with my setup?
Have somebody measured the Replacement Stylus from JICO?
Do i need a special Phono preamp
for this low output MM cartridge?

Technics EPC 205 C II L .

Original Stylus EPS 205 EX
In pretty good shape.
Output 2,2 mV (direct from the Turntable RCA Cable)

Jico SAS/B EPS 205 Ex
New
Output only 1,4 mV

Both measured with a true RMS DMM (Bryman BM235)
and a Ortofon Test Record.
1000Hz 5cm/sec rms



Thank you

I believe this is normal. The Jico SAS EPS-205 stylus was likely designed for the normal output version of this cartridge, not the low output version.

You can see my measurements both with the stock stylus as well as the Jico SAS stylus here

 

[mischa]

I believe this is normal. The Jico SAS EPS-205 stylus was likely designed for the normal output version of this cartridge, not the low output version.

You can see my measurements both with the stock stylus as well as the Jico SAS stylus here

I just measured a JICO SAS/S EPS 207 ED Stylus
with the 205 L cartridge.
Output 1,4 mV
This means the ED and EX are basically the same Stylus.
The Magnet is not strong enough for the L cartridge?

 

[mackat]

I just measured a JICO SAS/S EPS 207 ED Stylus
with the 205 L cartridge.
Output 1,4 mV
This means the ED and EX are basically the same Stylus.
The Magnet is not strong enough for the L cartridge?

I would assume it is because neither of those styli were designed with the low output 205C body in mind.

I don’t see a problem with the low output unless you’re noticing obvious hiss from your phono stage.

A phono stage with 50-55 db of gain would likely be ideal for 1.4 mV of output.

 

[dougi]

AT VMX-745ML
My copy. My second copy of TRS-1007 is a bit warped, which may explain the HF droop. Or perhaps something in the tonearm, although my VM540ML measured identically in both of my rigs. Or maybe my capacitance is greater than I think. I measured 71pF plus the Waxwing, which is supposedly 50pF. Shape of the HF bump suggests higher given JPs measurements.
Stylus alignment on mine not great, this plot was with headshell level in both directions, and tried various tweaks of the headshell. My VM740ML was better for cross talk in my setup.
Arm alignment was HFNRR "universal" which I think ~ Stevenson, as it could not stretch to Baerwald using my Project Align-it PRO.

 

[acd]

Audio Technica AT95E

Audio Technica AT95E from 2017. Not used often, i.e. assumed much less than average for an MM at this age.

VTF: 1.9g, Antiskating ~1.6 (Technics scale).
VTA: Arm wand is set parallel to the turntable platter surface.
SRA: With the above VTA and VTF (within manufacturer limits), I assume that SRA is according to specifications. I don't do specific SRA adjustment.
Tracking: 90mu on the Ortofon test record.

Measurements:

Figures:

 

[mischa]

I would assume it is because neither of those styli were designed with the low output 205C body in mind.

I don’t see a problem with the low output unless you’re noticing obvious hiss from your phono stage.

A phono stage with 50-55 db of gain would likely be ideal for 1.4 mV of output.

Thank you
I have no problem with hiss.
I set my fosi box x5 Phono preamp to 48 dB gain.

 

[mackat]

Ortofon 2M Blue

Purchased used with a reported play time of around 6 hours.

Frequency response is not bad at all! Based on past measurements, there may be some unit-to-unit variation.

Is greater channel imbalance on inner grooves a common phenomenon? I wonder what is causing that.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Audio Technica AT-95E new

Notes
- new less than 10 hours
- load 47k and total Capacitance 175pF including 50pF in RIAA, Parke Audio Puffin
- Azimuth clearly not optimal in top run, one degree off. -35/-34 on Analog Production Ultimate Analog test record, good channel balance in sweep
-Turntable Fisher MT-6630 direct drive, seems to be a good working tonearm( even response no big wiggles or dips below 1khz), effective mass 16gram.
- Test record Clearaudio CA-TRS-1007 heavily used


I used this method to extract the mechanical response, see below

Cartridge Loading Calculator - MV Audio Labs

This is a frequency response calculator for a phono cartridge equivalent loading circuit. You can use it to predict final system frequency response.

www.mvaudiolabs.com