Introducing Hang Loose Convolver from Accurate Sound

[AudioJester]

When I first went down the road of a PC/multichnnel dac active system - rule number 1 was do not connect tweeters to channels 1/2!

Channel mapping/routing in Audiolense is really easy. Under speaker setup you set it / label it however you are wired up. You can then safely test before running sweeps. Then the.cfg files are automatically generated using the same channel mapping. I dont get how you can get a wrong setup in the .cfg file??

 

[Keith_W]

When I first went down the road of a PC/multichnnel dac active system - rule number 1 was do not connect tweeters to channels 1/2!

Channel mapping/routing in Audiolense is really easy. Under speaker setup you set it / label it however you are wired up. You can then safely test before running sweeps. Then the.cfg files are automatically generated using the same channel mapping. I dont get how you can get a wrong setup in the .cfg file??

I am not the Audiolense user. My friend was. I told him my channel mapping is 1, 2 for left and right sub, 3, 4 for left and right woofer, etc. He wanted 0-3 for left, and 4-7 for right. But that would involve too much recabling, and the cables are really well hidden in my system and I was not willing to do that. So he ended up telling Audiolense to use 0, 2, 4, 6 for left, and 1, 3, 5, 7 for the right. That is as far as I recall.

I have no idea why the .cfg files came out so garbled. I am glad I was cautious and played it at a very low volume before we realized the channel assignments were wrong. Anyway, it's fixed now and since I don't use Audiolense, I left it to him to figure out.

 

[SDX-LV]

NanoPC-T6

www.friendlyelec.com

I wonder if an ARM computer hardware like this with HDMI input could be programmed to decode Atmos from HDMI and then run the necessary DSP stuff or at least output decoded audio over Dante/AVB/ethernet ? If yes, then ARM-based convolver and room correction would be very interesting

 

[DWPress]

I wonder if an ARM computer hardware like this with HDMI input could be programmed to decode Atmos from HDMI and then run the necessary DSP stuff or at least output decoded audio over Dante/AVB/ethernet ? If yes, then ARM-based convolver and room correction would be very interesting

There are already multiple threads here on how to do this. However the only ARM based release of HLC is for Raspberry Pi.

 

[SDX-LV]

There are already multiple threads here on how to do this. However the only ARM based release of HLC is for Raspberry Pi.

I haven't noticed any information on how to Input an HDMI into any custom hardware to decode Atmos, DTS-X and the like. To do 7.1.4 decoding of Atmos from your Xbox, Apple TV, etc. today you basically must get specialized devices like AVRs or Arvus products. Have I missed anything?

 

[mitchco]

Hi @SDX-LV thanks for your suggestion. HLHost and HLC can target pretty much any computing platform, including iOS, Android, ARM32 like Beaglebone Black, and the one you suggested.

I already have something in the works with the chassis and PCB's being designed/manufactured. Sorry, I cannot disclose any further details at this point, but should make you (and others) happy Stay tuned!

 

[SDX-LV]

Stay tuned!

Exciting I am "putting together" a system to add Atmos to a car - there is no space for AVRs and "home theater processors" plus it all needs to be properly DSP tunable with over 16 channels for digital crossovers and 5.1.4 channels... (and preferably just-work™ standalone). I need at least a year more till the budget catches up with ambitions:
So I can wait

 

[gabo4au]

Hey Mitch, I went to your site a few days ago and noticed that my version (1.1.8) was way out of date. So I downloaded 1.2.6 and installed it. It whined about the directory already existing, so I just ignored that. It updated the host app, but in my DAW I'm still showing the old VST3 version. Doing a systemwide search for hlconvolver.vst3, I don't find a new version of that. How do I get the new vst3 installed?

 

[mitchco]

Hi Gabo, sorry for the trouble. if there is an instance of HLC running, the installer will complain and not install the new version. The other aspect is that Steinberg recently updated their VST SDK which now install's HLC as a "bundle." This happened in-between version 1.1.8 and 1.2.6. So these two items may complicate upgrades.

If you haven't already, please uninstall and then reinstall, making sure no instances are running. I don't know what OS you are running. but if you take a look at page 7 of the operations guide, it describes where the plugins are installed. For example, on Windows it is:
C::\Program Files\Common Files\VST3\HLConvolver.vst3 And now it is:
C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3\HLConvolver.vst3\Contents\x86_64-win\HLConvolver.vst3.

Please let me know how you make out.

 

[gabo4au]

Ah, no worries Mitch. I'm on Winblows 11 I uninstalled it, deleted the C:\program files\accurate sound directory, then deleted the c:\program files\common files\vst3\hlconvolver.vst3 file. Then I re-installed it from the download.

All good! My DAW picked up the new vst3 location as it searches everything under c:\program files\common files\vst3\... And the host version works as well, with my saved config.

I should have tried that before I posted here as it gave me the error when I tried to install it. I just looked at the error and it seemed like it was just complaining about the directory already being created. When I continued on, it then seemed to install, but obviously not correctly.

I should have bailed out and uninstalled when I saw that message. Great program that I use every day with both my DAW and the host. I use both an RME Babyface and an RME UFX for the studio. Easy with the host to route things correctly through HL with TotalMix.

 

[gabo4au]

I use the HL convolver to correct my headphones for both my DAW and for just general listening on my computer, which I do a lot of. For a few years I have been using a 44.1Khz IR as that's what I generally record in with my DAW.

However, I am in the process of converting all my recordings to 48Khz to be more compatible with video as I am now doing a lot of video work as well. Without even thinking about it, I didn't change my IR for HL and it just continued to work. I'm not sure the tie between the IR in HL and the rest of the audio. Regardless I want to change my IR to 48Khz as well.

I'm not exactly sure where I got my current IR, but it's from "oratory" as that's in the name of the IR file I have been using. But this is also an opportunity to make improvements. I use Sennheiser HD650s at the present time, purchased in 2020.

At this site, https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master

There are a ton of IR's for use with whatever headphones you have. However, there are so many different options buried in that mound of excellent data that I'm not really sure which one would be best. Or if there are better IR's for this purpose from somewhere else. It seems on that site they have just one IR that is in the "results" subdirectory. I'm not really sure where that one comes from, I assume that is there recommended one. But there are also IR's from many different locations and variants of the HD650s in there, including one from oratory.

I realize I can just download all of them and do my own testing, but sometimes it's hard to know if what you're hearing just "sounds good" to me or if it is actually "accurate." Those two terms are related, but not exactly the same. As a music producer I need to be "accurate" more than I need them to "sound good." What do you guys use? Any recommendations?

 

[JStewart]

I use the HL convolver to correct my headphones for both my DAW and for just general listening on my computer, which I do a lot of. For a few years I have been using a 44.1Khz IR as that's what I generally record in with my DAW.

However, I am in the process of converting all my recordings to 48Khz to be more compatible with video as I am now doing a lot of video work as well. Without even thinking about it, I didn't change my IR for HL and it just continued to work. I'm not sure the tie between the IR in HL and the rest of the audio. Regardless I want to change my IR to 48Khz as well.

I'm not exactly sure where I got my current IR, but it's from "oratory" as that's in the name of the IR file I have been using. But this is also an opportunity to make improvements. I use Sennheiser HD650s at the present time, purchased in 2020.

At this site, https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master

There are a ton of IR's for use with whatever headphones you have. However, there are so many different options buried in that mound of excellent data that I'm not really sure which one would be best. Or if there are better IR's for this purpose from somewhere else. It seems on that site they have just one IR that is in the "results" subdirectory. I'm not really sure where that one comes from, I assume that is there recommended one. But there are also IR's from many different locations and variants of the HD650s in there, including one from oratory.

I realize I can just download all of them and do my own testing, but sometimes it's hard to know if what you're hearing just "sounds good" to me or if it is actually "accurate." Those two terms are related, but not exactly the same. As a music producer I need to be "accurate" more than I need them to "sound good." What do you guys use? Any recommendations?

You can also use this web app which uses the same data, but gives you flexibility to tweak if you like. Just select convolution as the EQ.

AutoEq

Automatic headphone equalization

autoeq.app

Is the 650s different from 650? @mitchco has filters on his site for the 650.
I prefer and use his exclusively for my HE6se V2. The set includes all sample rates up to 352.
His store:

Store - Accurate Sound

Hang Loose Products Calibration Services Digital Room Correction Stereo US $ 750.00 Digital Room Correction Multichannel US $ 1,500.00 Headphone Calibration LEARN MORE Headphone FilterSets

accuratesound.ca

He also has a program to send yours in for filter set development if the 650s is different.

Headphone Calibration - Every Headphone Needs a Filter - Accurate Sound

Every set of headphones needs a filter. We measure and correct headphones to reproduce a neutral frequency response. Send us your headphones.

accuratesound.ca

 

[gabo4au]

You can also use this web app which uses the same data, but gives you flexibility to tweak if you like. Just select convolution as the EQ.

AutoEq

Automatic headphone equalization

autoeq.app

Is the 650s different from 650? @mitchco has filters on his site for the 650.
I prefer and use his exclusively for my HE6se V2. The set includes all sample rates up to 352.
His store:

Store - Accurate Sound

Hang Loose Products Calibration Services Digital Room Correction Stereo US $ 750.00 Digital Room Correction Multichannel US $ 1,500.00 Headphone Calibration LEARN MORE Headphone FilterSets

accuratesound.ca

He also has a program to send yours in for filter set development if the 650s is different.

Headphone Calibration - Every Headphone Needs a Filter - Accurate Sound

Every set of headphones needs a filter. We measure and correct headphones to reproduce a neutral frequency response. Send us your headphones.

accuratesound.ca

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean the HD650S. What I wrote was the plural for HD650! sorry about that, it's just the standard HD650. AutoEQ is not something I'm interested in because I primarily use HL for my DAW with ASIO interfaces. Autoeq is not a VST plugin and therefore cannot be assigned in a DAW output. I'm only interested in IR files to be used directly the HL.

I did not realize the Mitch had IR's on his site. I'm going to download the 14 day trial and will probably use his.

Thanks

 

[gabo4au]

Just an update here. I purchased the IR's from @mitchco an Accurate Sound and also had a great conversation with Mitch. Such a great guy and very easy to work with. I have huge respect for him and his product. I replaced sonarworks and other EQ setups in my studio with HL a number of years ago, and find it much better and easier to tweak and compare different sounds and environments.

One thing to be aware of, is that his filters are set up to produce a "flat" response from your headphones.

There has been much written and discussed about the "Harman" headphone curve and other variants of headphone curves. Most, if not all of them, arguing that some version of a curve results in a headphone sound that more closely resembles a flat speaker response in a room. I believe all, or at least most, of the IR's available from the autoeq project produce some sort of "Harman like" curve for your headphones. If I'm wrong about that, please chime in.

This means that IR's from @mitchco are going to produce a very different sound from IR's from the autoeq project. I'm not interested in derailing this thread to start a discussion of the Harman curve or other curves and which one is best for your uses. There are other threads here on the forum for that, some of them get pretty intense.

I'm just pointing out and describing my understanding of these various filters and what they do. For my own personal preference and hearing, I find that some curve close to or approaching the Harman curve does sound more like my speakers in my studio control room. But I also like to use different filters to get an idea of how my recordings sound in different environments. I actually also have filters that simulate things like "auratone" monitors and Yamaha NS10s, among other things. That's one of the great things about the HL convolver, you can load all these things into the interface and easily switch back and forth between them. But I started this conversation to try to find my "best" filter, which I now realize might not even be possible. I'm better served by multiple filters and toiling over mixes and recordings using all of them, as I've done for decades.

EDIT: Just for clarity... I use the term "flat" here as more of a concept, not actually perfectly flat. It's pretty well accepted that even speakers and rooms should have a bit of a "tilt" to the response, slightly emphasizing the lower frequencies. So when I use "flat" in this note, I'm referring to a flat response with a bit of a tilt. Not technically a perfectly "flat" response.

 

[tehas]

I haven't noticed any information on how to Input an HDMI into any custom hardware to decode Atmos, DTS-X and the like. To do 7.1.4 decoding of Atmos from your Xbox, Apple TV, etc. today you basically must get specialized devices like AVRs or Arvus products. Have I missed anything?

Licensing is the main issue, there's no way around that. Noone wants to license DIYers for HDMI, HDCP, or Dolby, so you can't buy any hardware to do this (I have tried and been ignored by momentum data systems, dolby, analog devices, and a couple others).
Once you have licenses, there are off the shelf solutions from ad, ti etc that can take hdmi and give you i2s or tdm outputs.

Or, you can go the hacker route and do this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../adding-post-dsp-spdif-outputs-to-avrs.19468/
With some control api for the avr, you can wrap the whole thing up in a nice interface from an HTPC and hide your hackery from any unsuspecting user.

I already have something in the works with the chassis and PCB's being designed/manufactured. Sorry, I cannot disclose any further details at this point, but should make you (and others) happy Stay tuned!

If this includes codec decode / render with FIR capabilities after, I'm certain you'll find plenty of buyers here, DIYaudio and CA. Seems like 'Decode audio from HDMI and DSP it' is a topic that comes up every month on one of these forums
For a stretch goal do video playback and FIR with lipsync

 

[LGD_]

@mitchco - can this be used in the DSP chain of foobar2000 (32 bit) ?

 

[mitchco]

Hi @LGD_ yes, Peter did a great job with his universal VST adapter: https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dsp_vst3

A quick test:

 

[LGD_]

Thanks mitchco for the quick reply...

I guess I needed to explain my situation more fully:
I am now using the DSP Processor, in foobar's DSP chain, to upconvert everything to DSD 256 (my DAC sounds better doing this)
Currently I have the foobar convolver in the DSP chain before the upconverter. I don't think I can use the VST adapter and still upconvert to DSD ( correct ?)

So my question is: Can I substitute the Hang Loose Convolver into the DSP chain ?

 

[mitchco]

I would imagine yes, as DSD is output encoding past the VST3 plugin chain. But that is really a question for Peter at Foobar2000. Or you can download a free trial of HLC and give it a try as you already have all of the DSD components installed (I don't).