Interesting listening experiences with a few CD players

[tcpip]

Record the output of both players using the same song (record at 24/192) and rip that particular song and include that rip for comparison.
After this the discussion should start. Now it is just 'hear-say' and subjective opinions.

Done that. Files uploaded. Hope you find them interesting.

 

[solderdude]

What's missing is the rip of the used CD.
Now the guys that can do their magic can only compare differences between the recordings (which is O.K. by itself) but could be handy to compare to the original file to see which CDP is 'most correct'.

Also ... just a few minutes of 1 song is more than enough which saves a lot of storage space and bandwidth.

 

[Chrispy]

I don't understand this remark at all about "demonstration of a notable difference". I am not discussing whether I like Player A or Player B, in case I was unable to explain in my original post. I am discussing whether there is an audible difference at all. I believe there is. Preferences only come into the picture after one accepts that there are differences.

You have just posted some sort of anecdote so far, without any reason to think your opinion/feeling/preference is meaningful.

 

[solderdude]

He posted a link with most of the requested files (post #60)
Only the rip of the original CD is not posted yet.
The files are huge.

Best would have been about 3 minutes of the song that makes the clearest difference to tcpip and the rip of the used CD of the same song.

I believe @tcpip is doing his best to provide more than just anecdotes.

 

[Chrispy]

He posted a link with most of the requested files (post #60)
Only the rip of the original CD is not posted yet.
The files are huge.

Best would have been about 3 minutes of the song that makes the clearest difference to tcpip and the rip of the used CD of the same song.

I believe @tcpip is doing his best to provide more than just anecdotes.

Maybe I missed some posts...but so far strikes me as anecdotal primarily.

 

[MAB]

Recordings done.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

These are large FLAC files. Each is a 24/96 recording. I have not trimmed the silences at the start and end of the FLAC files. When trimmed, there will be 64 mins of audio.

I played the same physical CD in all three sessions, without moving or reconfiguring anything in between. I configured Audacity to record samples in 24-bit integer instead of 32-bit floating point.

There are two recordings of Player B, because this player offers two digital filter settings. I can't hear any difference between these filter settings.

I had earlier posted a link here to the original set of FLAC files which I have used. When burning the CS, I saw free space, so I added a couple of longer tracks at the end. Therefore the set of original FLAC files does not have these last two tracks. In any case the comparison can be done now, because the CD played through the different players is consistent.

I have done zero post-processing. I have not changed the gain, and therefore the tracks are not level matched. The two recordings from Player B are expected to be at identical levels, but the Player A track is expected to be (slightly) different.

I strongly suggest that you don't come to a conclusion about subjective differences until you check them out with IEMs or good clean monitoring headphones.

I captured the first track since the files are way too long for reasonable comparison. I compared Player A to Player B with filter 1, could have scored 16 out of 16, I just got my A's and B's confused in one of the trials. The audible difference is the 1.7dB level offset between player A and player B.

The louder trail sounds better, cleaner, punchier, etc. if you were to ask me for my preference.

I was able to tell Player B with filter 2 from Player A just as easily.

Looking at the first track's Left channel spectra (after level aligning), they are matched between Player A and Player B Filter 2, but Player B Filter 1 is one of those odd filters that don't really do the job:

Here is the right channel, same thing.

Can I hear the difference in treble response with Payer B Filter 1? It's about 1 dB at 12kHz, increasing with frequency due to the filter. Not likely with the first track, it doesn't have enough tells for my ear, and certainly not unless the levels were dead matched.

The main conclusion is that level matching is important. You have two players that are quite a bit mismatched in level, no wonder people can hear the difference.

 

[tcpip]

What's missing is the rip of the used CD.
Now the guys that can do their magic can only compare differences between the recordings (which is O.K. by itself) but could be handy to compare to the original file to see which CDP is 'most correct'.

Also ... just a few minutes of 1 song is more than enough which saves a lot of storage space and bandwidth.

See this post: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...th-a-few-cd-players.63964/page-3#post-2346444 I've posted a link to a Dropbox folder which has all the FLAC files of all but the last two tracks on my CD. I'd prepared and posted that two days back.

 

[tcpip]

He posted a link with most of the requested files (post #60)
Only the rip of the original CD is not posted yet.
The files are huge.

Best would have been about 3 minutes of the song that makes the clearest difference to tcpip and the rip of the used CD of the same song.

I believe @tcpip is doing his best to provide more than just anecdotes.

I think you'll get that in #53.

 

[tcpip]

Can I hear the difference in treble response with Payer B Filter 1? It's about 1 dB at 12kHz, increasing with frequency due to the filter. Not likely with the first track, it doesn't have enough tells for my ear, and certainly not unless the levels were dead matched.

If there is a 1dB difference in level at 12KHz between the two players, I am sure this will show up when I measure frequency response. Let's see what comes out. This is a huge and easily measurable difference in responses.

The main conclusion is that level matching is important. You have two players that are quite a bit mismatched in level, no wonder people can hear the difference.

I think I've explained multiple times that level matching or mismatching is not helping to remove the difference in subjective evaluation.

 

[MAB]

If there is a 1dB difference in level at 12KHz between the two players, I am sure this will show up when I measure frequency response. Let's see what comes out. This is a huge and easily measurable difference in responses.

I measured the frequency difference with your recording.

0.5dB at 10kHz
1dB at 12kHz
2dB at 16kHz
etc.
It exists throughout the recording.

I think I've explained multiple times that level matching or mismatching is not helping to remove the difference in subjective evaluation.

You done everything but simply A/B/X with the tracks level matched. You got me to A/B/X a level mismatched track. Thanks for putting in all of this work, but I recommend you level match and A/B/X. I suggest the largest difference is going to be filter 1 on Player B. I level matched your recording of that first song with and got 7/16 and 8/16 between Player A and the two different Player B filters, so I wasn't able to tell. But I have tried to explain everything needed to do a proper A/B/X. That 12kHz difference is going to take really good HF hearing, some very good concentration, and a good track to hear since identifying FR differences in treble becomes increasingly difficult.

 

[solderdude]

There is an overall >1dB RMS difference between the players (all songs and last song only) which already can tilt perceived SQ in the direction of player A.

RMS total CD player A

RMS total CD player B

RMS last song CD player A

RMS last song CD player B

Even when level matched chances are you can differentiate simply because FR of one of the players is not correct. My guess is that player B has rolled off treble due to the 'NOS filter' which is audible and NOT a proper reconstruction filter.
player A is louder making it a preferred player seemingly with 'more body' and 'silkier treble' on direct comparison.

All differences should disappear when using both CDP as transport and using the ADI2 as a DAC.
It might already be safe to say (from what I have seen sofar) is that both CDP's are likely to sound different and the 'A' player seems to have a deliberate 'sound signature' probably in order to 'differ' from other models.