• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Interesting Beolab 90 Postmortem: Back to the Real World

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,440
Likes
632
I am slow on my reading catchup after the holidays. But, I encountered this and I bought it might be of interest, at least to some of you:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-82#DyZWx1K1sp8EW6C4.97

Yes, it is Kal's views as he returns to earth and his normal system after having lived with the Beolab 90's, which he considered the best speakers he had ever heard. That review us in the same issue. This follows article is brief as it pertains to the Beolabs, so I will not give his conclusions away.

Sure, it is subjective, but I think those who read Kal regularly know that he is as intellectually honest as they come. We are also dealing in areas of listener reactions here for which there are no good objective metrics. I have not heard the Beolabs, but it also exactly mirrors my own reactions upon hearing some quite exalted stereos, as I do with some regularity.
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,409
Location
Seattle Area, USA
I am slow on my reading catchup after the holidays. But, I encountered this and I bought it might be of interest, at least to some of you:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-82#DyZWx1K1sp8EW6C4.97

Yes, it is Kal's views as he returns to earth and his normal system after having lived with the Beolab 90's, which he considered the best speakers he had ever heard. That review us in the same issue. This follows article is brief as it pertains to the Beolabs, so I will not give his conclusions away.

Sure, it is subjective, but I think those who read Kal regularly know that he is as intellectually honest as they come. We are also dealing in areas of listener reactions here for which there are no good objective metrics. I have not heard the Beolabs, but it also exactly mirrors my own reactions upon hearing some quite exalted stereos, as I do with some regularity.

So the $85,000 speakers can't beat decade old multi-channel?

I'm not really surprised.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,376
Likes
234,506
Location
Seattle Area
I have always said that even cheap multi-channel systems can beat the highest end stereo. Just let the rear channels loose and they create a sense of envelopment that no stereo system can produce.

Outside of that, Kal's article is full of gems on building high-performance silent system with fantastic performance. Highly recommended read.

Multi-channel is on my todo list :).
 

fas42

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
2,818
Likes
191
Location
Australia
And I have always said that I haven't heard a multi-channel yet that does it, for me, :p :D. Sense of envelopment? Easy peasy, with a fully competent stereo setup ... :)
 

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,051
Likes
12,150
Location
London
So the $85,000 speakers can't beat decade old multi-channel?

I'm not really surprised.
But imagine a multi channel Beolab system.
Keith
 

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
But imagine a multi channel Beolab system.
Keith
Or two beolabs up front and three kii audio speakers filling in.. Or are they not so good now the Dutch and Dutch offerings have come out?

Or shall we use the new active JBL offerings ?

Affordable active studio monitors that utilise DSP to the fullest ( like the new JBL) used as a surround system could be epic:)
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,409
Location
Seattle Area, USA
Or shall we use the new active JBL offerings ?

Affordable active studio monitors that utilise DSP to the fullest ( like the new JBL) used as a surround system could be epic:)

Over on the AVS forums, high rollers have built multi-channel systems using the 7-series or 7-series plus M2.
 

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,051
Likes
12,150
Location
London
Or two beolabs up front and three kii audio speakers filling in.. Or are they not so good now the Dutch and Dutch offerings have come out?

Or shall we use the new active JBL offerings ?

Affordable active studio monitors that utilise DSP to the fullest ( like the new JBL) used as a surround system could be epic:)

The Kii's really are excellent you should really hear them for yourself,
Keith
 

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
The Kii's really are excellent you should really hear them for yourself,
Keith
Well I asked lol the JBL intrest me more tbh iv had it with start ups and the kii three won't go loud enough while holding its shiiit together..
 

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,051
Likes
12,150
Location
London
Get Kharma to put you in touch with their nearest dealer, which I suspect will be themselves!
Keith
 

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
Get Kharma to put you in touch with their nearest dealer, which I suspect will be themselves!
Keith
Yes, I did and a guy in Cheltenham is poised to bring down the 4356853896 or what ever it's called but I'm thinking if I change I want to ditch passive speakers so I chose not to waste his time.
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,409
Location
Seattle Area, USA
Well I asked lol the JBL intrest me more tbh iv had it with start ups and the kii three won't go loud enough while holding its shiiit together..

FWIW, the Dolby ATMOS mix stage at PostWorks in NYC was built around the JBL 708s. Presumably that installation can hit reference levels with headroom to spare.
 

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,051
Likes
12,150
Location
London
I heard the new smaller ( randomly generated number) JBL at the Indulgence show, unfortunately there was considerable room resonance which Kharma didn't have the nous to fix!
I would have showed them how if they had asked.
Keith
 
OP
F

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,440
Likes
632
I have always said that even cheap multi-channel systems can beat the highest end stereo. Just let the rear channels loose and they create a sense of envelopment that no stereo system can produce.

Outside of that, Kal's article is full of gems on building high-performance silent system with fantastic performance. Highly recommended read.

Multi-channel is on my todo list :).
Kal and I have compared notes on that and we are in agreement that somewhere in the $5-$10k total system price range for either, Mch gains the sonic winning hand, never to lose it to stereo at any price higher than that.

The only problem is people's preferences in recorded source material. There are tons of really excellent, discretely miked, hi rez Mch recordings in classical. Fortunately, that is what Kal, other friends and I prefer. Unfortunately, the number of top notch non-classical albums in Mch is quite limited by comparison. And, artificially simulated Mch or pop oldies remastered for Mch do not truly represent what Mch can do.
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,409
Location
Seattle Area, USA
Kal and I have compared notes on that and we are in agreement that somewhere in the $5-$10k total system price range for either, Mch gains the sonic winning hand, never to lose it to stereo at any price higher than that.

The only problem is people's preferences in recorded source material. There are tons of really excellent, discretely miked, hi rez Mch recordings in classical. Fortunately, that is what Kal, other friends and I prefer. Unfortunately, the number of top notch non-classical albums in Mch is quite limited by comparison. And, artificially simulated Mch or pop oldies remastered for Mch do not truly represent what Mch can do.

Have you compared multi-ch classical to listening to headphones using HRTF?

I know it's apples vs oranges, but for me, HRTF beats multi-channel and you don't need special recordings.

And to keep the somatic experience, you can keep a subwoofer in the mix.
 
OP
F

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,440
Likes
632
Have you compared multi-ch classical to listening to headphones using HRTF?

I know it's apples vs oranges, but for me, HRTF beats multi-channel and you don't need special recordings.

And to keep the somatic experience, you can keep a subwoofer in the mix.
Someday, in my rocking chair in an old folks' home, I envision myself with a Smyth Realizer including HRTF calibration and head tracker, but playing Mch recordings, not stereo.

I do not agree that at all that phones, especially stereo phones, can exceed Mch via speakers, even with HRTF. It still lacks too much spatial information in stereo. To each, his or her own, of course.
 

oivavoi

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
1,721
Likes
1,934
Location
Oslo, Norway
Have you compared multi-ch classical to listening to headphones using HRTF?

I know it's apples vs oranges, but for me, HRTF beats multi-channel and you don't need special recordings.

And to keep the somatic experience, you can keep a subwoofer in the mix.

What kind of software or technical thingies are you using for getting HRTF to work? Do you need special phones?
 

Kal Rubinson

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
5,273
Likes
9,794
Location
NYC
Have you compared multi-ch classical to listening to headphones using HRTF?

I know it's apples vs oranges, but for me, HRTF beats multi-channel and you don't need special recordings.

And to keep the somatic experience, you can keep a subwoofer in the mix.
The only phone listening I have tried was with the Smyth Realiser. That was motivated by a fascination with the technology and I was amazed to find that it was excellent. However, I cannot wear headphones comfortably, so they are a no-go for me.
 
Top Bottom