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Integrated that can subjectively compete with Benchmark stack?

radix

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Minidsp 2x4 flex driving a power amp does everything except the phono preamp?

My understanding is for a MM cartridge, you can load the biquads for the RIAA compensation and not use a pre-amp. I've not done this, but there are other posts on ASR about it.
 
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itsikhefez

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I'll try to answer multiple comments at once.

An integrated amp with MM phono would reduce 2 power cords, a pair of XLR cables and a pair of RCA cables.
It would turn 3 boxes into one, that could be put in a centralized location vs. the 3 boxes that are spread out and require longer wires.
There is also a realization here that I will likely enjoy a system that is "good enough" and I don't necessarily need the SOTA.

I could later use a DAC+streamer for a total of 2 boxes, I think that would allow a much cleaner layout than the current situation.

The ambient noise from the Bryston transformer could be heard at low listening volumes. I'm not spending $8K on an amp to only be able to use it at loud volumes.
I now recall that prior to this Benchmark stack I had a Luxman L-507uX II which did not have this issue. Not sure if the EI transformer did a better job at potentially dealing with some DC in the mains or just had a more quiet design.
I considered the Yamaha AS-2200/3200 before going with the Luxman so am familiar with those options

I'll take a look at the other suggestions here (except trying to get tinnitus).. thanks!
 
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itsikhefez

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Looking at the Michi P5, seems like a perfect candidate if not overkill.
It would replace the LA4/DAC3/Phono preamp & Streamer, and I would obviously use it with the AHB2.
Besides the balanced output for the AHB2, it has mono outputs for subs and a line-out for the tape deck.

Curious if there are are other similar products
 

Vini darko

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Well if you insist on dumping the best stack and going intergrated. The NAD m33 does everything and has purifi amps on board along with dirac and all your other requirements.
Edit: measurments from Amir.
 
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MAB

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Unfortunately, the B135 was fairly loud mechanically (I could hear the transformer from my listening position) which is something I can't get used to.
In addition, noise at the speaker as the volume knob increases was noticeably louder than the Benchmark.
I bought the Bryston second-hand so maybe something is wrong with it but it is only about 2 years old and looks in mint condition.
After about an hour of listening I was fairly disappointed (compared to my current system) so it is likely going back.

Looking for the experienced folks here for any recommendations
Seems like you need to call Bryston service, they actually have experience and can answer if it is reasonable for this to noticeably buzz at such a distance. You have a 20 year warranty.
 

Daverz

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Unfortunately, the B135 was fairly loud mechanically (I could hear the transformer from my listening position)

I don't think any Bryston gear should hum like that. I would suggest calling Bryston U.S. service about the transformer hum.


I had to send an amp back for repair. They were very easy to work with on the phone, and it took them a day to repair the amp and send it back.
 
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itsikhefez

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To be clear, I purchased the amp second-hand from a dealer and I am still within the return window so opt to do that.
I'll give Bryston a call but I am concerned that if I choose to keep it and try to repair it, I will be outside the return window if I'm still unhappy with the performance.
 

MAB

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To be clear, I purchased the amp second-hand from a dealer and I am still within the return window so opt to do that.
I'll give Bryston a call but I am concerned that if I choose to keep it and try to repair it, I will be outside the return window if I'm still unhappy with the performance.
You should see if the dealer is reasonable. Ask them to ship it back to Bryston for warranty. Try out something else while waiting. No way the dealer should hold you over a barrel.
Like @Daverz said, Bryston is typically easy to deal with and no way it should audibly buzz.
 

JiiPee

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A more cost efficient alternative to Michi P5 could be Eam Lab Studio DA201. It has both digital and analog inputs; MM-phono preamp; XLR-out plus both pre-out and line out with rca connections, so it seems to cover all needed functionality.
 
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itsikhefez

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Yea M33 is missing 2 functionalities (USB-in is one) so won't work.

Thanks for the tip on the Eam Lab Studio DA201. I found the Cyprus Pre-XR also has all the required functionality. Although I am a bit weary of their products because I always see cheap components in pictures of their internals.
 

Vini darko

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Yea M33 is missing 2 functionalities (USB-in is one) so won't work.

Thanks for the tip on the Eam Lab Studio DA201. I found the Cyprus Pre-XR also has all the required functionality. Although I am a bit weary of their products because I always see cheap components in pictures of their internals.
Yeah sorry I missed the tape loop. And didnt realize the usb input wasn't proper. I assumed one would dump the pi and use the in built streamer.
 

RayDunzl

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My understanding is for a MM cartridge, you can load the biquads for the RIAA compensation and not use a pre-amp.

If I remember correctly, having attached a turntable to my system without a "phono preamp", it required the use of a microphone input (not a line input) to achieve the necessary gain, before sending that signal on to an equalization stage for RIAA.

+40dB or thereabouts would likely be required, and neither of my miniDSP boxes include a slider that goes past +12db.

Maybe you can do it with biquads, I haven't tried.

---

First post below says a typical MM cart outputs a maximum of 4 to 5 millivolts.

Take that to one volt max, a nice round workable number,

Using 0.0045V as an average, a gain of 46.93dB would do it, or 222 times the voltage.

 
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itsikhefez

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I have built DIY line-level preamplifiers, many phono preamps, and a DAC in the past, maybe I should just build a custom preamp.
Not sure if there any good OTS DAC modules these days that can compete
 

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restorer-john

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I can't speak for the Yamahas mentioned above, but tranny hum noises must be something that this large organisation would eliminate from all their higher end gear at least?

Yamaha's transformers have always been very physically quiet, even from the early days. They definitely used to skimp on the power transformers compared to other brands who went overboard, but, to their credit, I think their materials and processes produce excellent transformers that rarely fail or become 'noisy'. They appear to either have been using the same transformer manufacturer for around 40 years. They are all marked with KGCOMP (Kaga Components/Electronics) stickers and have been for as long as I can remember. Kaga also supplies Sony's transformers from a Malaysian factory Kaga Comp set up in the 90s IIRC.

1664931275881.png


Their careful PCB and ground layouts generally produce pretty quiet amplifiers.

I can't comment on Yamaha's higher end models with toroidals, as I've never had one to work on/own.
 

radix

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If I remember correctly, having attached a turntable to my system without a "phono preamp", it required the use of a microphone input (not a line input) to achieve the necessary gain, before sending that signal on to an equalization stage for RIAA.

+40dB or thereabouts would likely be required, and neither of my miniDSP boxes include a slider that goes past +12db.

Maybe you can do it with biquads, I haven't tried.

---

First post below says a typical MM cart outputs a maximum of 4 to 5 millivolts.

Take that to one volt max, a nice round workable number,

Using 0.0045V as an average, a gain of 46.93dB would do it, or 222 times the voltage.


This post links to a minidsp-provided spreadsheet with the RIAA biquads. But it assumes you have a flat preamp.

This one seems to say that the ADC had enough gain for MM, but I didn't follow exactly what the poster was doing. They might have some gain from the "transmitter" stage.

Minidsp says you can get up to +24dB gain from the UI. but that does not mean it's a good idea, don't know what the noise would be like.

Anyway, that's a long way of saying I think you're right there does need to be a flat preamp before using the digital RIAA.
 

woofersus

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Don't know much about the performance of any of these, but they all seem to fit the bill of putting everything in one box: Integrated amps with MM Phono, DAC, streaming, and various analog inputs and outputs, including subwoofer. I love the idea of consolidating to just a single box and speakers.

https://goldnoteusa.com/product/is-1000/
 

DSJR

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Yamaha's transformers have always been very physically quiet, even from the early days. They definitely used to skimp on the power transformers compared to other brands who went overboard, but, to their credit, I think their materials and processes produce excellent transformers that rarely fail or become 'noisy'. They appear to either have been using the same transformer manufacturer for around 40 years. They are all marked with KGCOMP (Kaga Components/Electronics) stickers and have been for as long as I can remember. Kaga also supplies Sony's transformers from a Malaysian factory Kaga Comp set up in the 90s IIRC.

View attachment 235275

Their careful PCB and ground layouts generally produce pretty quiet amplifiers.

I can't comment on Yamaha's higher end models with toroidals, as I've never had one to work on/own.
Thank you. I lost touch with the brand as of the late '70's but a CA1000mk2 I had for a short while was utterly silent and with a beautiful 'feel' to the well engineered switch-gear. I did baulk a bit at he number of sub boards and amount of cabling inside though (the UK now sub-par 'enthusiast' amps coming up back then were simplicity itself in comparison but it seems, got the performance fundamentals wrong :( )
 
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