Integrated stereo amplifier with bass-management?

[sarumbear]

Good for you but I am a bit of a purist. I want to hear the music as the artist intended and that is almost always in stereo.

Meh. Nothing very pure about 2ch audio except that's what we got stuck with primarily due limitations of vinyl.

Alan Blumlein would have disagreed with you so have I. Surround is a better format but there is very limited recordings out there. I want Hight Fidelity not only in electronics but also to the artist. If they have created their art in stereo I want to hear it in stereo too.

Up-mixing stereo to surround is like converting Mona Lisa to 3D. It can be done but I feel you are spoiling the original art.

 

[Chrispy]

Alan Blumlein would have disagreed with you so have I. Surround is a better format but there is very limited recordings out there. I want Hight Fidelity not only in electronics but also to the artist. If they have created their art in stereo I want to hear it in stereo too.

Up-mixing stereo to surround is like converting Mona Lisa to 3D. It can be done but I feel you are spoiling the original art.

And Alan Blumlein is dead how long now? I've been involved in business with several musical artists (doing work for them, I am not a musician) who let many decisions about the recordings go to others....Frank Zappa was one who was very involved, tho. If you don't want to upmix, don't. I wish we could get a few more like Steven Wilson interested, tho....

 

[sarumbear]

From skim-reading through this thread, these are the ones that meet the requirements so far:

Elac Discovery DS-A0101-G Fits the bill
NAD D3045 Fits the bill
Martin Logan Forte Fits the bill
Paradigm PW AMP Discontinued
NAD M3 (used only)
Harman Citation Amp Cannot see high-pass filter option in the manual
Outlaw RR2160 Fits the bill
Bluesound Powernode Fits the bill
Pioneer SX-N30 (used only)

Availability, however, varies wildly between these units.

Thank you for this compilation. Much appreciated.

 

[sarumbear]

And Alan Blumlein is dead how long now? I've been involved in business with several musical artists (doing work for them, I am not a musician) who let many decisions about the recordings go to others....Frank Zappa was one who was very involved, tho. If you don't want to upmix, don't. I wish we could get a few more like Steven Wilson interested, tho....

Ha! Vinyl was invented when? Not to mention he was the person who re-engineered the American lathe patent.

You are basically listening music using Blumlein's inventions...

 

[Chrispy]

Ha! Vinyl was invented when? Not to mention he was the person who re-engineered the American lathe patent.

You are basically listening music using Blumlein's inventions...

Meh, most audio progress was invented for the movies, and three channel audio was at one point deemed better than two channel, too, but harder for implementation in a home for sure. It's what sticks and gets into the mass market....it was mono back in Blumlein's time in any case as far as vinyl goes. I may read more about him (I just quickly googled him as wasn't familiar with the name). Vinyl was limited to two ch after mono for quite a while and became dominant in music distribution overall for a very long time. Quad did make it to vinyl but really wasn't suited for it, just way too fussy (as vinyl generally is). We're still mostly stuck with that legacy IMO.

 

[sarumbear]

Meh, most audio progress was invented for the movies, and three channel audio was at one point deemed better than two channel, too, but harder for implementation in a home for sure. It's what sticks and gets into the mass market....it was mono back in Blumlein's time in any case as far as vinyl goes. I may read more about him (I just quickly googled him as wasn't familiar with the name). Vinyl was limited to two ch after mono for quite a while and became dominant in music distribution overall for a very long time. Quad did make it to vinyl but really wasn't suited for it, just way too fussy (as vinyl generally is). We're still mostly stuck with that legacy IMO.

You need to read history.

Blumlein was granted a patent in 1931 for binaural recording system which later renamed as stereo. He cut the first stereo disk in 1933 at EMI R&D facility in Hayes, near Heathrow airport. I know this well because I was an apprentice engineer there during 60s.

American followed a year after, recording the orchestra in stereo for Fantasia.

 

[sarumbear]

Meh, most audio progress was invented for the movies, and three channel audio was at one point deemed better than two channel, too, but harder for implementation in a home for sure. It's what sticks and gets into the mass market....it was mono back in Blumlein's time in any case as far as vinyl goes. I may read more about him (I just quickly googled him as wasn't familiar with the name). Vinyl was limited to two ch after mono for quite a while and became dominant in music distribution overall for a very long time. Quad did make it to vinyl but really wasn't suited for it, just way too fussy (as vinyl generally is). We're still mostly stuck with that legacy IMO.

You need to read history.

Blumlein was granted a patent in 1931 for binaural recording system which later renamed as stereo. He cut the first stereo disk in 1933 at EMI R&D facility in Hayes, near Heathrow airport. I know this well because I was an apprentice engineer there during the 60s.

Americans (Bell Labs) followed a year after, recording an orchestra in stereo for Fantasia.

 

[Chrispy]

You need to read history.

Blumlein was granted a patent in 1931 for binaural recording system which later renamed as stereo. He cut the first stereo disk in 1933 at EMI R&D facility in Hayes, near Heathrow airport. I know this well because I was an apprentice engineer there during the 60s.

Americans (Bell Labs) followed a year after, recording an orchestra in stereo for Fantasia.

I will read more about Blumlein later. This tech was utilized in movies at that time (Bell doing their 3ch thing in '33 as well, Fantasia was several years later). It still doesn't make it the best way to go just because it's been around a long time and somewhat baked into consumer goods as 2ch. Some may prefer it, tho. Some still think vinyl is great....

 

[ProfessorPepper]

This was me earlier this year. I read the whole thread. Aside from some grumps that shouldn't have ever commented if they didn't know of any amps that fit your criteria. Criteria which I also find very valuable. I value a compact system therefore no AVR. I value value therefore I don't want to pay for features I have no use for, if possible. After only finding hackenstein/superfluous solutions or solutions far outside of my budget I settled on a Rythmik F12G fitted with the A370PEQ amp fed into a Hypex NC252MP amp which, like @Shanman mentioned, includes a true crossover with the only "con" being the bass frequencies aren't "flavored" with my amp's sound signature. After listening to the result, doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I truly hope you find the perfect 2.1ch integrated amp with bass management for under $1000. It really shouldn't be this hard. Expensive headphones and amp/dacs have surged in popularity in the last decade and as many of these people search for the next best thing I don't see the majority reaching for a full surround setup, rather a 2.0-2.2 setup that mirrors the experience of listening with headphones including using desk-sized amps (like SMSL's AD-18 & SA300 but BETTER) but with sound you can feel. Ugh, I love it. Disclaimer: I see this transition taking a long time to happen as the "sweaty gamer" headphone population slowly matures but definitely happening nonetheless. This conjecture is all based on my personal experience for the record.

 

[Head_Unit]

I can't help to keep thinking a subwoofer with high level inputs could really be something to consider for someone scouring for a 2.1 integrated with bass management, especially when the user is requiring high pass to the main stereo speakers. This would allow the required result of high pass and low pass control, but would be done via the subwoofer, not the integrated amp. This in turn would open up a much larger field of stereo integrated amps to pick from.

Take the Outlaw X12 for instance, it has high level inputs with pass-through to the loudspeakers. Bass management with HP to the speakers, all laid at the feet of the sub amp not the integrated.

I don't I follow this. High level inputs connect to the speaker outputs on the integrated, connected in parallel to the speakers. No highpass. Unless you mean that the subwoofer would have an internal highpass crossover, and power for the speakers? (In which case you don't need an integrated at all, just a preamp). A few subs do have highpass output, but it is low level, and most stereo integrateds have no main-in jacks to accept that.

 

[Head_Unit]

hope you find...2.1ch integrated amp with bass management for under $1000. It really shouldn't be this hard.

Yeah! There is a big conceptual/behind-the-times mental roadblock about this I guess. Even something like the small SMSL, Aiyima, etc amps could include DIP switch crossover functions without a huge increase in size or cost. I got one of those AIYIMA A07 TPA3255 amps, a solid 60 or whatever watts, if it even had just an internal highpass you could match it to a sub nicely.

 

[Gurkerl]

I found some more possible candidates:

Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated:

1. A one unit solution as in "integrated" Check
2. Good amplification suitable for Hi-Fi usage 110w x2, 8 or 4 Ohm
3. Physical volume control and not depending on an app to use it. Check
4. At least one analogue input 4 analog audio inputs
5. Integrated crossover to use with a subwoofer Analog bass management w/ variable 20-140Hz high pass crossover
6. At least one analogue subwoofer output Check
7. Adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency. Check
8. Cost no more than US$1000 or thereabouts X (I see it for 1300USD online)
9. Available to the UK Check

Sonos Amp:

1. A one unit solution as in "integrated" Check
2. Good amplification suitable for Hi-Fi usage 125w x2, 8 Ohm
3. Physical volume control and not depending on an app to use it. ? (I think the disc on top acts as a volume control?)
4. At least one analogue input Check
5. Integrated crossover to use with a subwoofer Check
6. At least one analogue subwoofer output Check
7. Adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency. 50-110hz
8. Cost no more than US$1000 or thereabouts 600Usd
9. Available to the UK Check

Totem Kin Amp

1. A one unit solution as in "integrated" Check
2. Good amplification suitable for Hi-Fi usage 2 x 100w RMS @ THD=1% @4Ohm
3. Physical volume control and not depending on an app to use it. X (touch volume control)
4. At least one analogue input Check
5. Integrated crossover to use with a subwoofer ?
6. At least one analogue subwoofer output Check
7. Adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency. 20-220Hz (not sure if this is a "real" crossover)
8. Cost no more than US$1000 or thereabouts 800Usd
9. Available to the UK Check

Please correct me if I got any of these wrong

 

[alex-z]

As far as amplifiers go, the Dayton APA1200DSP for $735 may be of interest. The analogue outputs are mirrored from the inputs, so you high-pass the speaker amplification, but still use the RCA outputs to drive 1 or 2 subwoofers that have their own low-pass filter built-in. I cannot speak for the audio quality, but on paper it seems to meet your requirements.

Shopping

Slightly off topic but perhaps of interest are the KEF LS50 Wireless II speakers.

They have a subwoofer output with proper adjustable high-pass filter. They also meet your "bonus" features of being small, supporting Roon, wireless streaming, etc. Good all-in-one if money is no object.

 

[Gorgonzola]

SHD Power - Streaming Amplifier + DSP + Dirac Live® Room Correction (minidsp.com)

120 watts x2.

All good all good for me except NO remote control.

 

[sarumbear]

I don't I follow this. High level inputs connect to the speaker outputs on the integrated, connected in parallel to the speakers. No highpass. Unless you mean that the subwoofer would have an internal highpass crossover, and power for the speakers? (In which case you don't need an integrated at all, just a preamp). A few subs do have highpass output, but it is low level, and most stereo integrateds have no main-in jacks to accept that.

You need to elaborate what is it that you do not follow. What do you mean by "high level inputs connect to the speaker outputs on the integrated, connected in parallel to the speakers"?

 

[sarumbear]

I found some more possible candidates:

Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated:

1. A one unit solution as in "integrated" Check
2. Good amplification suitable for Hi-Fi usage 110w x2, 8 or 4 Ohm
3. Physical volume control and not depending on an app to use it. Check
4. At least one analogue input 4 analog audio inputs
5. Integrated crossover to use with a subwoofer Analog bass management w/ variable 20-140Hz high pass crossover
6. At least one analogue subwoofer output Check
7. Adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency. Check
8. Cost no more than US$1000 or thereabouts X (I see it for 1300USD online)
9. Available to the UK Check

Sonos Amp:

1. A one unit solution as in "integrated" Check
2. Good amplification suitable for Hi-Fi usage 125w x2, 8 Ohm
3. Physical volume control and not depending on an app to use it. ? (I think the disc on top acts as a volume control?)
4. At least one analogue input Check
5. Integrated crossover to use with a subwoofer Check
6. At least one analogue subwoofer output Check
7. Adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency. 50-110hz
8. Cost no more than US$1000 or thereabouts 600Usd
9. Available to the UK Check

Totem Kin Amp

1. A one unit solution as in "integrated" Check
2. Good amplification suitable for Hi-Fi usage 2 x 100w RMS @ THD=1% @4Ohm
3. Physical volume control and not depending on an app to use it. X (touch volume control)
4. At least one analogue input Check
5. Integrated crossover to use with a subwoofer ?
6. At least one analogue subwoofer output Check
7. Adjustable subwoofer crossover frequency. 20-220Hz (not sure if this is a "real" crossover)
8. Cost no more than US$1000 or thereabouts 800Usd
9. Available to the UK Check

Please correct me if I got any of these wrong

Parasound NewClassic 200 Integrated is indeed fits the bill but here in UK it is £1599.

Sonos Amp: I'm not sure if they have a high-pass filter on the amplifier. It says crossover on the subwoofer outputs. Does that mean the same frequency will be applied to cut off the lows from the amplifier? As far as I can read that is not clear.

Totem Kim Amp: similarly, there is no mention anywhere, manual included about the high-pass function. In fact there is mention of adjusting the subwoofer low-pass frequency even. As per the specs it is at 200Hz, which is far too high for a subwoofer.

Otherwise, thank you for taking time to do research.

 

[unexperienced]

It is unlikely that you will find something new in your budget. Only used.

 

[sarumbear]

It is unlikely that you will find something new in your budget. Only used.

You have obviously not read the thread at all and see the new devices mentioned that fit my criteria.

 

[unexperienced]

 

[Shanman]

I don't I follow this. High level inputs connect to the speaker outputs on the integrated, connected in parallel to the speakers. No highpass. Unless you mean that the subwoofer would have an internal highpass crossover, and power for the speakers? (In which case you don't need an integrated at all, just a preamp). A few subs do have highpass output, but it is low level, and most stereo integrateds have no main-in jacks to accept that.

OK, so I was actually incorrect in my thinking, which was confirmed by the reply Outlaw Audio sent me today.

I was under the impression that when using speaker level inputs present on the back of some active subwoofers, it was like using a poor man's version of bass management and sent high pass onwards to the stereo speakers at the end of the line. Not so. Apologies for my own misunderstanding.

Outlaw's reply:
"The pass through coming from the sub to the main speakers are full range, the signal will not be going through any kind of filter."

I also figured it would be a good opportunity to inquire for @sarumbear about the bass management specifics of the Outlaw RR2160MkII.

Outlaw's reply:

"In regards to the 2160MkII bass management, the "BP" option is true bypass which will allow you to use the internal crossover on your sub if you wish. This also means your main speakers are receiving no high-pass filters. If you were to set to 80Hz for example, everything 80Hz and below will go to the sub and everything 80Hz and above will go to your main speakers."