This amplifier has more than enough power to drive almost any speaker, unless in a ballroom.
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Integrated Quad Plate Measurement
- Thread starter Alexx
- Start date
less than 3dB, not really worth it and the problem lies elsewhere in any case.
- Thread Starter
- #23
Okay, thanks.
I connected the CD, but the output was almost the same as the Wiim (same track on both Tidal and CD). The CD seemed slightly louder to me and had better bass. It would take some instrumental testing to be sure. The CD player has a slightly higher output than the Wiim (2V Wiim / 2.3V Denon CD).
@Willem
There's definitely no shortage of power, but at this point I need to work on optimizing the source (something better than the Wiim). The best thing would be to use XLR inputs, which should have more sensitivity.
Let's hope (if that's possible) that Quad releases a new update to increase the gain by a few dB. They've already made improvements to HDMI and AV, so maybe they can work with this one too.
@Mart68
Exactly, a difference of less than 3dB wouldn't make sense. I'm looking for some models in the 89-90dB range. In any case, my Monitor Audio Studio89s seem too small for this integrated amp. A speaker with a larger woofer and greater sensitivity is the best choice.
I'll keep you updated. Thanks again.
I connected the CD, but the output was almost the same as the Wiim (same track on both Tidal and CD). The CD seemed slightly louder to me and had better bass. It would take some instrumental testing to be sure. The CD player has a slightly higher output than the Wiim (2V Wiim / 2.3V Denon CD).
@Willem
There's definitely no shortage of power, but at this point I need to work on optimizing the source (something better than the Wiim). The best thing would be to use XLR inputs, which should have more sensitivity.
Let's hope (if that's possible) that Quad releases a new update to increase the gain by a few dB. They've already made improvements to HDMI and AV, so maybe they can work with this one too.
@Mart68
Exactly, a difference of less than 3dB wouldn't make sense. I'm looking for some models in the 89-90dB range. In any case, my Monitor Audio Studio89s seem too small for this integrated amp. A speaker with a larger woofer and greater sensitivity is the best choice.
I'll keep you updated. Thanks again.
Given that, and given that a clear solution does not seem forthcoming, you might consider sending back or eBaying all the electronic kit, and buying an integrated DAC/streamer/amp (a "just-add-speakers" unit - there are plenty to choose from).@john61ct
My problem is that I'm not very good with these things; I have little knowledge on the subject.
Otherwise, I think there are solutions to optimize the signal/gain, even at reasonable prices.
I need to study a bit!!!
You should end up with money in your hand. Measured results will be more than good enough on most kit, and there will be no issue of mismatching. I'm not trying to run you down, but in the end, you just want to be able to music without messing about, I think.
If you are not sure of Chinese-branded kit, most of which is brilliant value, something like this (below) will give a decent user experience, irrespective of arguing SINAD or UI details; it's an "it just works" kind of thing - similarly there's NAD, Marantz, Denon, Bluesound, Ruark, et al. I have had Evo 75 since they first came out, mostly down to WAF and a small lounge, but I have been pleased with it; "good enough sound", easy enough for a budgie to use it, and it has never missed a beat.
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- Thread Starter
- #27
Excellent, thank you very much.
A single solution certainly eliminates many complications...
I have to think about how much I'd lose in terms of money. With a device like this (even the Nad C399 with module), I absolutely mustn't spend money on it once I sell it.
But this is the last resort.
For now, I'll proceed with new diffusers, with higher sensitivity, to see how the Quad performs. If it doesn't work, I'll use them for other electronics.
Thanks so much for the suggestion.
A single solution certainly eliminates many complications...
I have to think about how much I'd lose in terms of money. With a device like this (even the Nad C399 with module), I absolutely mustn't spend money on it once I sell it.
But this is the last resort.
For now, I'll proceed with new diffusers, with higher sensitivity, to see how the Quad performs. If it doesn't work, I'll use them for other electronics.
Thanks so much for the suggestion.
You do like experimentation, which is a good thing!
By "diffusers", I guess you mean different speakers?
Your Monitor Audio Studio 89's have a sensitivity of 86dB, which is slightly lower than than is typical - but I thought this had been covered above? (your amp has more than enough power to overcome a few dB's of low sensitivity).
I have no idea how these speakers sound, but I note they are light on bass, with "free field" response being -6dB at 53Hz (the 2x 4.25" drivers are pretty tiny). That would mean the low E string on a bass would be fairly quiet, and may affect how loud you think they feel. I added 2 powered subs to my small (and modestly priced) speakers and blocked the rear ports on them, as they are close to the back wall, but that's not the point here.
By all means try different speakers, and different positions for them.
Changing to different speakers is NOT indicated! Nor is replacing the Wiim...
Your amplifier is not "weak", unless it is a faulty unit.
It just requires a higher voltage on its input.
Which can be delivered as I suggested without spending much more money or going to any great trouble. No extra knowledge is required on your part, plug and play easy peasey.
If you think you're missing a data point or two, just google first then ask here and the hive mind will help you learn.
Your amplifier is not "weak", unless it is a faulty unit.
It just requires a higher voltage on its input.
Which can be delivered as I suggested without spending much more money or going to any great trouble. No extra knowledge is required on your part, plug and play easy peasey.
If you think you're missing a data point or two, just google first then ask here and the hive mind will help you learn.
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- Thread Starter
- #30
Here I am.
@Redacted
Exactly, by speakers, I mean the speakers (the translator makes some mistakes).
Exactly, I think that with more efficient speakers and larger woofers, I could see a significant improvement, especially in low-volume performance.
@john61ct
The amplifier is perfect; the shop even replaced it with another unit. It has the same anomaly, which apparently is perfectly normal; it just has a completely different volume control than I'm used to with other electronics.
As for the recommended device, I think it can only handle one input (I need to connect a CD streamer and turntable for records).
I'll take a closer look at it over the weekend to understand how it works.
Regarding the speakers, regardless of their low sensitivity, I think that adding something better could still give the Quad an advantage and, above all, a higher sound quality; such small woofers are very poor.
However, after many tests, I can confirm that at maximum volume, or at -10 dB or higher, the power is truly impressive.
I'll let you know how the next tests go.
Thanks for your help.
@Redacted
Exactly, by speakers, I mean the speakers (the translator makes some mistakes).
Exactly, I think that with more efficient speakers and larger woofers, I could see a significant improvement, especially in low-volume performance.
@john61ct
The amplifier is perfect; the shop even replaced it with another unit. It has the same anomaly, which apparently is perfectly normal; it just has a completely different volume control than I'm used to with other electronics.
As for the recommended device, I think it can only handle one input (I need to connect a CD streamer and turntable for records).
I'll take a closer look at it over the weekend to understand how it works.
Regarding the speakers, regardless of their low sensitivity, I think that adding something better could still give the Quad an advantage and, above all, a higher sound quality; such small woofers are very poor.
However, after many tests, I can confirm that at maximum volume, or at -10 dB or higher, the power is truly impressive.
I'll let you know how the next tests go.
Thanks for your help.
Allow me to compile the common themes in this thread, very true ones:
Your speakers and their sensitivity, however mediocre or low, don't matter. That's really not the problem. They are very average in that regard, a little below at worst.
That amp got power and quality both. So much so, if used right it's easily good enough for your average house- if not block party. I like to call this "full blast", which it can certainly do. Easily destroys smaller, weaker speakers and average ears in small to medium rooms. Just two or three decades ago, 200W into 8 and 350 into 4 Ohm was considered something between beefy and ludicrous.
The question is: what is "using it right" in this case? Also answered already: it's rather modern in gain structure and expects a rather high input voltage. Wiim is also very modern in that regard and delivers 2V easily, as is now standard. The key manufacturer specs:
Both together mean the internal DAC should have no problem with driving the power stage to full volume.
Leaves the last culprit, the ultimate source: the music, and the software playing it. That's where you need to look for problems - you already did - but it's really the only possible volume problem source I can gather from all of this.
Software is finnicky sometimes and doesn't deliver full digital volume. You tried to sort that out, but sometimes it isn't obvious what's really going on.
YouTube Android app outputs lower volume (confirmed)
If you're like me and wondered why listening via YouTube app seems low in volume compared to other apps, it's true. Leaving this here for future reference. TL;DR: app output is -6dB by standard Procedure: 50Hz test signal, software and DAC volume set to maximum, DAC output (DO100) measured...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Sorry to say I have no immediate solution for the problem - if there really is one, which still isn't clear to me - but I hope the summary and added points helped with general understanding at least.
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Of course better speakers improves the sound, I just mean don't use that approach to "fix this problem".
Are you now saying that your only problem here is the SCALING if the volume control? Like you need to turn it farther "up" to get to the max SPL you want?
That is not a problem, in fact it's A Good Thing, gives you finer control.
> I need to connect a CD streamer and turntable for records
My suggestion, to boost line level voltage - IF NEEDED - goes between the Wiim as preamp, and your power amp.
Those additional sources get routed through the Wiim.
But now I'm thinking from the above, you actually have no such problem?
> after many tests, I can confirm that at maximum volume, or at -10 dB or higher, the power is truly impressive.
Are you reaching an SPL higher than you actually want to play your system?
Then you do not have any such problem!
Are you now saying that your only problem here is the SCALING if the volume control? Like you need to turn it farther "up" to get to the max SPL you want?
That is not a problem, in fact it's A Good Thing, gives you finer control.
> I need to connect a CD streamer and turntable for records
My suggestion, to boost line level voltage - IF NEEDED - goes between the Wiim as preamp, and your power amp.
Those additional sources get routed through the Wiim.
But now I'm thinking from the above, you actually have no such problem?
> after many tests, I can confirm that at maximum volume, or at -10 dB or higher, the power is truly impressive.
Are you reaching an SPL higher than you actually want to play your system?
Then you do not have any such problem!
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- Thread Starter
- #33
Good morning.
@Ropeburn
Thank you so much for the technical specifications you provided, very helpful. Basically, using the XLR input with 2.4V could solve any low volume issues.
None of my devices have an XLR output.
You nailed my problem perfectly, I need to get used to using this integrated amp correctly.
I think this is the problem: I'm not used to such different volume control as I was with other devices I've owned.
Your advice was very helpful. Thanks again.
@john61ct
Perfect, you also understood exactly what my problem is (so it's not a problem at all, but just my misunderstanding about how to manage it).
You can understand why I was surprised.
Connecting an amplifier with 300 watts per channel into 6 ohms was a bit overwhelming, I imagined even at 1/5 of the volume (so -60 dB) it would sound incredibly loud, but reaching -30 dB to get an acceptable sound really confused me and raised many doubts about its actual power.
I confirm that at -10 dB it sounds really loud, but at -0 dB it almost breaks my small speakers.
I probably confused power in watts with quality, I thought that so many watts could knock down the walls of my house even at a moderate volume level, but that's not what I thought.
Thanks also for the suggestion to use the Wi-Fi as a multi-source and pair it with the Wiim output.
Link: https://hifight.it/prodotto/ifi-go-bar-kensei-dac-per-cuffie-ad-altissima-precisione/
And I'm wondering, wouldn't it be better to get an Eversolo DMP-A6 or similar, which has an XLR output to connect to the Quad?
One thing's for sure: I'd still like to try improving the volume feel (I know it's just my obsession), but I'd like to resolve this with either 89-90dB speakers or a source connected via XLR.
Thank you so much, you've been really helpful!!!
@Ropeburn
Thank you so much for the technical specifications you provided, very helpful. Basically, using the XLR input with 2.4V could solve any low volume issues.
None of my devices have an XLR output.
You nailed my problem perfectly, I need to get used to using this integrated amp correctly.
I think this is the problem: I'm not used to such different volume control as I was with other devices I've owned.
Your advice was very helpful. Thanks again.
@john61ct
Perfect, you also understood exactly what my problem is (so it's not a problem at all, but just my misunderstanding about how to manage it).
You can understand why I was surprised.
Connecting an amplifier with 300 watts per channel into 6 ohms was a bit overwhelming, I imagined even at 1/5 of the volume (so -60 dB) it would sound incredibly loud, but reaching -30 dB to get an acceptable sound really confused me and raised many doubts about its actual power.
I confirm that at -10 dB it sounds really loud, but at -0 dB it almost breaks my small speakers.
I probably confused power in watts with quality, I thought that so many watts could knock down the walls of my house even at a moderate volume level, but that's not what I thought.
Thanks also for the suggestion to use the Wi-Fi as a multi-source and pair it with the Wiim output.
Link: https://hifight.it/prodotto/ifi-go-bar-kensei-dac-per-cuffie-ad-altissima-precisione/
And I'm wondering, wouldn't it be better to get an Eversolo DMP-A6 or similar, which has an XLR output to connect to the Quad?
One thing's for sure: I'd still like to try improving the volume feel (I know it's just my obsession), but I'd like to resolve this with either 89-90dB speakers or a source connected via XLR.
Thank you so much, you've been really helpful!!!
It looks like the published figures DO NOT show any gain mismatches, and your electronics are fine.
Yes, your speakers are slightly quieter than many, and this is not relevant, given the gigawatts you have, although if the speakers are tucked on a shelf, that won't help.
Yes, any online music is volume-reduced or normalized, but you have already compared between CD, FLAC, online and still that's not reason for the problem
That leaves me thinking about what I said up-front - it may be that the electronic volume knob is mapped (in software) to turn up the volume very slowly until it gets to decent loudness...
[ I suggested this because it is exactly the case on my own unit, a Cambridge Audio Evo 75 - it's really a nice, Hypex-based unit and more than loud enough with 2 powered subs, even if ASR people would likely turn their noses up at it. On the forum for Evo owners, this has been a constant moan, i.e. going from zero to good listening levels takes about 8 billion turns of the knob! Easily fixed in software but CA are not good at improving their software, except for keeping up with the built-in streaming apps - the unit does not even respect ReplayGain tags in FLAC files, which is weird, but I digress.. ]
Yes, your speakers are slightly quieter than many, and this is not relevant, given the gigawatts you have, although if the speakers are tucked on a shelf, that won't help.
Yes, any online music is volume-reduced or normalized, but you have already compared between CD, FLAC, online and still that's not reason for the problem
That leaves me thinking about what I said up-front - it may be that the electronic volume knob is mapped (in software) to turn up the volume very slowly until it gets to decent loudness...
[ I suggested this because it is exactly the case on my own unit, a Cambridge Audio Evo 75 - it's really a nice, Hypex-based unit and more than loud enough with 2 powered subs, even if ASR people would likely turn their noses up at it. On the forum for Evo owners, this has been a constant moan, i.e. going from zero to good listening levels takes about 8 billion turns of the knob! Easily fixed in software but CA are not good at improving their software, except for keeping up with the built-in streaming apps - the unit does not even respect ReplayGain tags in FLAC files, which is weird, but I digress.. ]
It's a common enough misconception. Reality is if you're only using 20 watts the 20 watt amp and the 200 watt amp are the same - in most circumstances. It's better to have the power and not need it, than need it and not have it though.
Multicore
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This is not like Calvin Klein's fragrant and alluring product...
This is the kind of obsession that one should treat like a misbehaving child. It's yours and you're responsible but the behavior is unhelpful.
This is good advice.
- Thread Starter
- #39
@Redacted
In fact, you told me right away, and you're absolutely right. It's a design choice (I had the same impression when I tried a friend's Cambridge Evo 150SE). I'm getting used to it.
@Willem
Exactly, now it's all clear. I worried for nothing, thanks.
@Mart68
I'm glad you told me that. It reassures me, and it taught me something new. Thank you so much.
@Multicore
I don't like it. The shape looks like a suppository
@
Kalvin Cline is better, even if it has an ugly shape
Thank you all so much for your help; you're always very kind and technically very good!!!
See you soon.
In fact, you told me right away, and you're absolutely right. It's a design choice (I had the same impression when I tried a friend's Cambridge Evo 150SE). I'm getting used to it.
@Willem
Exactly, now it's all clear. I worried for nothing, thanks.
@Mart68
I'm glad you told me that. It reassures me, and it taught me something new. Thank you so much.
@Multicore
I don't like it. The shape looks like a suppository
@
Kalvin Cline is better, even if it has an ugly shape
Thank you all so much for your help; you're always very kind and technically very good!!!
See you soon.
next time it'll be brutal, and we'll demand payment
Thank you all so much for your help; you're always very kind and technically very good!!!
See you soon.
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