Integrated amplifier repairability

[maxp779]

Hi guys. Was wondering if today's integrated amplifiers are actually repairable? Are the higher end ones with fully discrete circuitry more repairable than the lower end stuff with IC's? Take the Yamaha A-S701 which I believe has plenty of IC's and the Yamaha A-S1200 which is older style discrete circuitry. At the end of the day they're both pieces of electrical equipment which can get broken. How easy would it be to get something like that fixed?

P.S Not looking to fix anything, I don't have a broken amp. Merely curious.

 

[somebodyelse]

It depends - sometimes they use widely available parts and other times they're custom or otherwise hard to come by. That can apply to both ICs and discretes - sometimes there just isn't a good equivalent transistor. The digital side can cause other problems - packages that are difficult to manually solder, or too small to have identifiable markings, microprocessors where you can get the processor but not the firmware, etc. so you'd probably have to try to find a whole replacement board.

 

[dualazmak]

Accuphase Laboratory, Inc. has firm policy on repair any of their products have been marketed through the official route after the inauguration of the company in 1972; actually they accept repair request of any of their products.
http://www.accuphase.com/

I have Accuphase E-460 integrated amp, and in 2014 they once announced E-460 product recall even for a very small possibility of one capacitor failure, and they changed the capacitor of course free of charge including the transportation.
http://www.accuphase.co.jp/inform.html

I also have one repair/overhaul experience of that E-460 with reasonable service charge.

 

[restorer-john]

Take the Yamaha A-S701 which I believe has plenty of IC's and the Yamaha A-S1200 which is older style discrete circuitry.

The Yamaha AS-xxx are hit and miss for repair ability. The power amplifier stage is totally discrete, through hole and uses standard parts. It's also the part most likely to get blown up. So, it's a tick for repair ability there. However, the rest of the units are a hodge podge of AVR SMD parts, bespoke programmed uPs and no fun to fix.

There are also certain parts not supplied as replacement- they may require an entire board. Not only that, firmware must be loaded using dedicated Yamaha software and a dongle through the service port on the rear panel. So access to the dongle, the firmware and the software is necessary or you have a bricked amplifier.

Basically, I'd regard the Yamaha AS-xxx amplifiers (all of them right up to the TOTL) as disposable, once the warranty period is over. You would likely be able to get the top models repaired at a significant cost through Yamaha Music, but for how long it's anyone's guess.

 

[trl]

[...] Take the Yamaha A-S701 which I believe has plenty of IC's and the Yamaha A-S1200 which is older style discrete circuitry. At the end of the day they're both pieces of electrical equipment which can get broken. How easy would it be to get something like that fixed?

P.S Not looking to fix anything, I don't have a broken amp. Merely curious.

Why would you say that A-S1200 has no ICs? I'm sure it has more ICs than the A-S701. Like John said, A-S701 has fully discrete output stage, drivers and pre-amp, see some inside pics here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-about-the-internals-few-measurements.9459/. All Yamaha amps might get one of their microprocessors broken and AFAIK there is no PN to replace it with, so maybe someone might use it as a power-amp later.

 

[maxp779]

Why would you say that A-S1200 has no ICs? I'm sure it has more ICs than the A-S701. Like John said, A-S701 has fully discrete output stage, drivers and pre-amp, see some inside pics here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-about-the-internals-few-measurements.9459/. All Yamaha amps might get one of their microprocessors broken and AFAIK there is no PN to replace it with, so maybe someone might use it as a power-amp later.

Just what I thought based on marketing and stuff:
https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-S1100SL-Channel-Integrated-Amplifier/dp/B0105JWDPU

"All-stages with fully discrete circuitry"

And this:
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/a-s2100/features.html

"All-stage fully discrete construction, balanced transmission and low impedance design
The A-S2100 has achieved a fully discrete configuration during tone defeat, by thoroughly separating the tone control circuit from the signal system. This not only increases response but also improves slew-rate, and results in high range reproduction of greater vitality, richness and smoothness. Signal transmission and amplification features fully balanced transmission for thoroughly balanced operation, even of the control system circuitry. Signal loss through transmission has been significantly reduced, with the application of screw clamp connections and thick cables in connecting the pre amp unit with the power amp unit, which is vital for signal transmission, and in connecting the power step to the speaker terminals. This improves the damping factor and improves driver capacity and damping power of the speaker, resulting in vibrant and powerful bass reproduction."


I guess my incorrect interpretation of all that marketing stuff was the whole thing was discrete and therefore maybe more repairable. But as restorer-john mentioned above it seems that there are still plenty of parts which are non repairable and it's just the power stage that's discrete.

 

[maxp779]

The Yamaha AS-xxx are hit and miss for repair ability. The power amplifier stage is totally discrete, through hole and uses standard parts. It's also the part most likely to get blown up. So, it's a tick for repair ability there. However, the rest of the units are a hodge podge of AVR SMD parts, bespoke programmed uPs and no fun to fix.

There are also certain parts not supplied as replacement- they may require an entire board. Not only that, firmware must be loaded using dedicated Yamaha software and a dongle through the service port on the rear panel. So access to the dongle, the firmware and the software is necessary or you have a bricked amplifier.

Basically, I'd regard the Yamaha AS-xxx amplifiers (all of them right up to the TOTL) as disposable, once the warranty period is over. You would likely be able to get the top models repaired at a significant cost through Yamaha Music, but for how long it's anyone's guess.

Would power amplifiers be more repairable? Say something like this Rotel 1582 mk ii:
http://rotel.com/en-gb/product/rb-1582-mkii

Or the smaller simpler looking 1552 mk ii:
http://rotel.com/en-gb/product/rb-1552-mkii

 

[Doodski]

Would power amplifiers be more repairable? Say something like this Rotel 1582 mk ii:
http://rotel.com/en-gb/product/rb-1582-mkii

Or the smaller simpler looking 1552 mk ii:
http://rotel.com/en-gb/product/rb-1552-mkii

Those Rotel power amps appear fully discreet. They appear very repairable.

 

[restorer-john]

Would power amplifiers be more repairable? Say something like this Rotel 1582 mk ii:
http://rotel.com/en-gb/product/rb-1582-mkii

Or the smaller simpler looking 1552 mk ii:
http://rotel.com/en-gb/product/rb-1552-mkii

Absolutely. My experience with Rotel amplification is they would have to be one of the best, most reliable brands out there.

Personally I love their simplicity and sensible designs. Obviously, the new models feature a bit of smart technology in them, but they are bulletproof and produced by a company that is solely focused on high quality audio.

 

[maxp779]

Cool, thanks for the input chaps!