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Installing ground at home a quick and simple way

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Trdat

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I'll be blatantly honest, ground for me has been one of the hardest concepts to grasp in audio and seeing we are on the topic of surge protectors I am keen to know if the advice I was suggested would work.

I had someone tell me that there is a handful of ways to install a ground for an apartement and many variables that need to be taken in consideration but if I can find some soil(ground) stick a metal pole in there, get a metal cable tie around it and connect a wire running it to the ground connection on my outlet(socket) it would be a simple way to ground my equipment that is connected to that particular outlet. Would this work?
 
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#2
Yeah, it’s quite simple actually - get one or two ground rods, 5+ft long and copper, and drive them into the ground, leaving an inch or two exposed. Get two ground rod conductor clamps, affix those to each rod, and run a 10ga solid copper wire between the two rods to connect them. get some solder and a torch, and solder the connections you made between the 10ga wires and the rods. This isn’t critical, but it helps with corrosion, mostly. Then run a 10ga solid copper wire from either rod into where you want to use the ground. Attach everything you’d like to ground to the same 10ga wire. This might be outlets (to ground them) or the equipment itself. Honestly, that’s all!
 

Doodski

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#3
Yeah, it’s quite simple actually - get one or two ground rods, 5+ft long and copper, and drive them into the ground, leaving an inch or two exposed. Get two ground rod conductor clamps, affix those to each rod, and run a 10ga solid copper wire between the two rods to connect them. get some solder and a torch, and solder the connections you made between the 10ga wires and the rods. This isn’t critical, but it helps with corrosion, mostly. Then run a 10ga solid copper wire from either rod into where you want to use the ground. Attach everything you’d like to ground to the same 10ga wire. This might be outlets (to ground them) or the equipment itself. Honestly, that’s all!
Ermm. yeah that's about it...rflmao... buddy is gonna stake a ground... all other things aside you did explain it pretty clear... yeah that's about it if you are so inclined but it's a bit far fetched for a average Joe. Don't go burying a ground post. At least in Canada you will be busted for some sort of stuff.
 

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#5
I had someone tell me that there is a handful of ways to install a ground for an apartement and many variables that need to be taken in consideration but if I can find some soil(ground) stick a metal pole in there, get a metal cable tie around it and connect a wire running it to the ground connection on my outlet(socket) it would be a simple way to ground my equipment that is connected to that particular outlet. Would this work?
Not in US. It would be illegal. You are only allowed to have a single ground which is at service entrance. If you put in a secondary ground at another outlet, it could cause your circuit breaker to not trigger in case of a short in your equipment and thereby present a dangerous situation.

You do not need such grounds anyway.
 

brimble

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Illegal in Australia too (at least, illegal for a layperson to wire it up to a mains socket).
 

gvl

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Here is the thing. If the OP is in fact in Armenia, unless we are talking about new construction, the wiring in apartment buildings there don't have the grounding conductor. So there is really no good way to ground your equipment. In fact there I'd rather tie my equipment ground to a rod driven into earth than to the neutral at apartment entrance, as who knows how well that neutral is connected to earth in the building and it may carry stray voltages. Your own earth grounding is unlikely to trigger the breaker to clear a ground fault, but it can lower the fault voltage to a safe enough level or provide a path of lower resistance to ground than your body. Thing is, you need to drive the rod pretty deep into the ground for it to be effective. Hence my question as why the OP needs it, if for safety then an earthing rod can be a reasonable compromise if permitted by code, if it is for some audiophilic reasons, I would not bother at all.

 
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solderdude

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#8
I'll be blatantly honest, ground for me has been one of the hardest concepts to grasp in audio and seeing we are on the topic of surge protectors I am keen to know if the advice I was suggested would work.

I had someone tell me that there is a handful of ways to install a ground for an apartement and many variables that need to be taken in consideration but if I can find some soil(ground) stick a metal pole in there, get a metal cable tie around it and connect a wire running it to the ground connection on my outlet(socket) it would be a simple way to ground my equipment that is connected to that particular outlet. Would this work?
You are talking about safety ground here. Safety ground is there to ensure that when metal parts that can be touched are connected to the same potential as the floor one walks on. This becomes a thing when an electrical appliance fails in such a way that mains voltages can make contact with the metal enclosure. The resistance should be low enough so that only a safe low voltage can only occur. The mains fuse should be able to blow so currents must be able to flow.

Just ramming a metal rod in the ground has a fairly big chance NOT to meet those requirements. A safety ground rod should be placed by someone that can also measure the resistance to ground. It has to be inserted deep enough and not corrode to actually do something (for your safety).

When you have metal (copper) water piping or central heating with metal piping those should be required to be grounded.
ONLY use one ground... not 2. Don't think 'clean' ground exists. An electrical installation in a house, certainly in the kitchen and wet rooms should have a ground connection (3rd pin)
 
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Trdat

Trdat

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Thread Starter #9
Curious what problems you're trying to solve with it.
To be honest I can't say I have a problem per se but as my building complex has absolutely no ground I thought having one might reduce the chance of a short circuit when I am playing around with my equipment. And it might be safer for me as well. Please enlighten me if there is no point?
 
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Trdat

Trdat

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Thread Starter #10
Not in US. It would be illegal. You are only allowed to have a single ground which is at service entrance. If you put in a secondary ground at another outlet, it could cause your circuit breaker to not trigger in case of a short in your equipment and thereby present a dangerous situation.

You do not need such grounds anyway.
But my building has no ground at all.
 

solderdude

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When you only have double isolated equipment safety ground is not needed.
Strange that there are no regulations for buildings and electrical installations in Armenia.

Do you feel 'tingles' when touching appliances like PC's or audio gear ?
 
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Trdat

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Here is the thing. If the OP is in fact in Armenia, unless we are talking about new construction, the wiring in apartment buildings there don't have the grounding conductor. So there is really no good way to ground your equipment. In fact there I'd rather tie my equipment ground to a rod driven into earth than to the neutral at apartment entrance, as who knows how well that neutral is connected to earth in the building and it may carry stray voltages. Your own earth grounding is unlikely to trigger the breaker to clear a ground fault, but it can lower the fault voltage to a safe enough level or provide a path of lower resistance to ground than your body. Thing is, you need to drive the rod pretty deep into the ground for it to be effective. Hence my question as why the OP needs it, if for safety then an earthing rod can be a reasonable compromise if permitted by code, if it is for some audiophilic reasons, I would not bother at all.

So you are reccomending the rod idea that I mentioned?

My building is an early Soviet contruction so no ground but I am lucky that I am on the ground floor pardon the pun and I also have a basement which I probably need to go only 2 metres to reach soil. The rod will be about 10 metres from my equipment. And to clarify I will be only connecting it to one socket not to the main. I was told this was the simplest. This socket has most of my equipment but not all.

In regards to why I need it well, I will be happy enough not install it if there is no need, you guys know better and I will take the advice given. The main reason I think I need it is for safety for me for when I am playing with over 6 amplifiers 3 preamps and 4 DACs. Also perhaps to lower votltage and send it to ground on the off chance I short sicuit something on my behalf.
 

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#13
If your equipment has isolating transformers in their power supplies, as most linear PSs do, then you are probably OK. I can't speak for switchmode PSs, though.
 
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Trdat

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Thread Starter #14
Just ramming a metal rod in the ground has a fairly big chance NOT to meet those requirements. A safety ground rod should be placed by someone that can also measure the resistance to ground. It has to be inserted deep enough and not corrode to actually do something (for your safety).
Interesting you say it wont meet requirements.

When you have metal (copper) water piping or central heating with metal piping those should be required to be grounded.
ONLY use one ground... not 2. Don't think 'clean' ground exists. An electrical installation in a house, certainly in the kitchen and wet rooms should have a ground connection (3rd pin)

Yes but whats the point of the third pin if there isn't anywhere for the third pin to go to? This is where I get confused, lets say the appliance has a third pin and the socket has a third pin where does that pin need ot connect to? Or does it have to be connected to something?
 
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Trdat

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Thread Starter #16
When you only have double isolated equipment safety ground is not needed.
Strange that there are no regulations for buildings and electrical installations in Armenia.

Do you feel 'tingles' when touching appliances like PC's or audio gear ?
There is a rule for everything in the post Soviet space but adhering to them is another thing. Lol!! On a serious note, the new buildings all have standards and they are kept, I am in a 1960 building and strata only takes care of small things.

No, tingles, no shocks when playing around with audio gear. Once though, I had a speaker connected to one amp and accidently connected another amp to the same speaker or something like that and created a short and I lost my computer and a few amps. I don't know exactly what I did but something happend. Now, not sure if earthing would of saved that situtation.
 

solderdude

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#17
Interesting you say it wont meet requirements.
Only when the proper metal rod is used and it is deep enough. How deep that has to be depends on local conditions.
Earth rods can be tested O.K. from just a meter depth to requiring tens of meters.
How would you know how deep to go when you don't have a meter for that.
When the pole is 3 meter long and soil is dry the rod basically does nothing.

Yes but whats the point of the third pin if there isn't anywhere for the third pin to go to? This is where I get confused, lets say the appliance has a third pin and the socket has a third pin where does that pin need ot connect to? Or does it have to be connected to something?
When there are 3 prong sockets in the house (for convenience ?) and the 3rd pin is not connected anywhere the best coarse of action is to find out if this is allowed and contact the building owner.

No, tingles, no shocks when playing around with audio gear. Once though, I had a speaker connected to one amp and accidently connected another amp to the same speaker or something like that and created a short and I lost my computer and a few amps. I don't know exactly what I did but something happend. Now, not sure if earthing would of saved that situtation.
Wouldn't have made a difference most likely. Safety ground is only for personal safety.
Devices with a 3-prong plug should always be connected to a proper safety ground.
Is your water piping not grounded or are plastic pipes used here and there.
 

Wombat

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#18
There is a rule for everything in the post Soviet space but adhering to them is another thing. Lol!! On a serious note, the new buildings all have standards and they are kept, I am in a 1960 building and strata only takes care of small things.

No, tingles, no shocks when playing around with audio gear. Once though, I had a speaker connected to one amp and accidently connected another amp to the same speaker or something like that and created a short and I lost my computer and a few amps. I don't know exactly what I did but something happend. Now, not sure if earthing would of saved that situtation.

DIY equipment can be built by individuals who are ignorant of safe wiring practices. Similarly some minor brand commercial gear.
 
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Wombat

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Only when the proper metal rod is used and it is deep enough. How deep that has to be depends on local conditions.
Earth rods can be tested O.K. from just a meter depth to requiring tens of meters.
How would you know how deep to go when you don't have a meter for that.
When the pole is 3 meter long and soil is dry the rod basically does nothing.



When there are 3 prong sockets in the house (for convenience ?) and the 3rd pin is not connected anywhere the best coarse of action is to find out if this is allowed and contact the building owner.



Wouldn't have made a difference most likely. Safety ground is only for personal safety.
Devices with a 3-prong plug should always be connected to a proper safety ground.
Is your water piping not grounded or are plastic pipes used here and there.

Water pipes are a no-no for installation grounding because of electrolysis related corrosion and random ground fault voltage potentials.

This thread is not one for the unqualified and inexperienced. Life and death.

Thread should be closed.
 
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Mnyb

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#20
But my building has no ground at all.
That's not possible where i live (Sweden) ? The power companys cable into the building must have some kind of ground ? It's either a combined PEN ground/neutral + screen or only the screen if its the kind of cable where the screen is designed with sufficient cross section to also be the ground/neutral conductor.
So the cable can have three phases and a thick screen.

Ground/Neutral is then split to separate Neutral and Ground in your house. You notice i

You should really not do this yourself.

Sorry for the Swedish in this simplified picture the fuses for individual groups are left out!
Example is just the residual-current circuit breaker or what you call your earth fault device in English ?

PEN=Protective Earth and Neutral
PE=Protective Earth.
In your house the 230VAC stuff outlets etcis connected to one of the phases L1,L2 or L3 and N via its respective fuse.
Your 3 phase 400VAC appliances like ovens water heaters etc uses L1,L2,L3 or possible just between two legs for example L1,L2 to get 400VAC

1614848340658.png
 
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