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Inside Your High-Res Music: 2L high resolution samples

amirm

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Per request, I did an analysis of the free music tracks which the Nordic label 2L kindly distributes for free: http://www.2l.no/hires/

It is a great service and I hope you all reward them by at least buying an album from them.

For this test, I just grabbed the first track that was there:
upload_2017-10-16_10-6-1.png


I analyzed the original DXD track, 24-bit/96 Khz, 16/44.1 CD and MQA version. It turned out to be a nice comparison and good learning exercise. Hope you find it useful.


Let me know what you think of production quality. It sounds the best to me of my previous captures. I did create it before eating breakfast though so my vocal quality is not at the same as best in the world as it usually is! :D

I did speak faster as to make it quicker to get through the material. Please let me know if you like the slower, more geriatric version. :)
 

svart-hvitt

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FWIW,

I always come back to a couple of the 2L recordings («Quiet winternight» and «Quiet light» by Jan Gunnar Hoff) when I want some quiet music for the darker months of the year.

Both are of excellent quality to showcase a 100 percent digital oriented recording house.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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Most interesting results, Amir. It would seem that even very high quality oriented labels do not have the equipment to assure maximum pristine quality of their process via measurement that you do. So, some small glitches in the recording/mixing/mastering chain may leak through. The spikes in the 96k hi rez PCM version might indicate some induced problem anywhere in the chain, including even possibly in the original DXD recording in the studio or at a later processing stage. The spike in the RBCD version would seem to indicate some problem confined to downconversion from hi rez.

As you say, though, these likely are all inaudible.

I was a bit perplexed by the rising ultrasonic noise level in the 96k version. As you say, this resembles the noise shaping typical in 1-bit DSD. But, to my knowledge, 2L records in DXD, which is 352K PCM, and it derives all the other versions from that, including the DSD version. So, it is quite curious that an all PCM downsampling process from DXD to 96k would resemble DSD noise shaping. I seriously doubt that they would convert DXD to DSD to 96k PCM.

I have a number of 2L recordings, and they are indeed of very high quality. My main complaint about the label is that their Mch miking of ensembles tends to be from a within the ensemble perspective rather than from the audience perspective, like most other classical recordings. But, no problem when a very small ensemble, such as a string quartet, is recorded.

I wonder if any other hi rez labels, most of them small European specialists like 2L, have similar issues.
 
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amirm

amirm

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I too was surprised to see dxd noise shaping that very much resembled 1-bit dsd. I will search for more dxd recordings to see if they are all like that.
 
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Blumlein 88

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https://www.promates.com/music-store/

I haven't purchased from here, but everything is in DXD and some lower rate formats. No samplers I could find.

Acoustic Sounds store has a few>
http://store.acousticsounds.com/c/337/DXD

https://www.nativedsd.com/new_browse/#

Searching for DXD will turn up some recordings here. I have read if you sign up for an account, they have free downloadable samples in a members only area of their site.

https://www.soundliaison.com/all-categories/6-compare-formats
This is a free sample of multiple formats you can download. I don't know if the quality of the original gear is up to what 2L used, but you could look for similar noise profiles perhaps.
 
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svart-hvitt

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https://www.promates.com/music-store/

I haven't purchased from here, but everything is in DXD and some lower rate formats. No samplers I could find.

Acoustic Sounds store has a few>
http://store.acousticsounds.com/c/337/DXD

https://www.nativedsd.com/new_browse/#

Searching for DXD will turn up some recordings here. I have read if you sign up for an account, they have free downloadable samples in a members only area of their site.

The special about 2L is that they control the whole chain. And they are born digital. So files from this house are supposed to be beginning-to-end hi-res.

In other words, you should try and search out productions that are hi-res from capture to master.
 

Blumlein 88

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I too was surprised to see dxd noise shaping that very much resembled 1-bit dsd. I will search for more dxd recordings to see if they are all like that.
I downloaded the 352 recording sample from Sound Liaison and it does not have the noise shaped profile in the ultrasonics. It gradually drops to - 100 db at 100 kHz and then drops to about -140 db near nyquist.
 
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amirm

amirm

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I downloaded the 352 recording sample from Sound Liaison and it does not have the noise shaped profile in the ultrasonics. It gradually drops to - 100 db at 100 kHz and then drops to about -140 db near nyquist.
Thanks for reminding me about Sound Liaison. I have a bunch of their albums. I downloaded the sampler (had it before but somehow lost it), and while you are right, it also opened the pandora's box on a bunch of other things! Will have to do a video on that. :)
 

RayDunzl

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We briefly had a member here that has his own studio...

His philosophy was a single calibrated minimalist setup, unchanged for different performers, although their positions relative to the microphones might vary.

I still have some files he offered, can send them to Amir to take a peek, if he doesn't have them...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...2-0-master-file-giveaway-for-asr-members.695/

http://www.playclassics.com/

One of the files is a drum solo, with the alteration from his norm of being attenuated by 20dB, but should have wide-band cymbal sound there, at a substantial SPL...
 
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amirm

amirm

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Thanks for reminding me of those clips. I still have them. Did a quick analysis just now and they are squeaky clean!
 
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I downloaded the 352 recording sample from Sound Liaison and it does not have the noise shaped profile in the ultrasonics. It gradually drops to - 100 db at 100 kHz and then drops to about -140 db near nyquist.
That's the profile I find in our DXD recordings too (Merging-Horus). A bit strange, since afaik 2L is also using Horus converters. I might be able to find a few multitrack session takes if Amir is interested. Guaranteed single mic to ADC signal without any processing.
 
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amirm

amirm

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might be able to find a few multitrack session takes if Amir is interested. Guaranteed single mic to ADC signal without any processing.
I am always interested. :)
 

c1ferrari

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Do you think analysis of an "original source" DSD256 is in the offing?
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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This article might shed some light on the rising ultrasonic noise level in the 2l recording:

http://www.soundstageglobal.com/ind...oduct-profiles/195-2l-q2l-twbas-2012-samplerq

The article says it is due to the 5-bit delta-sigma profile in the Pyramix Workstation. I had a hunch that might be a possibility. They say the frequency extension of DXD is not why they use that sampling rate. Rather it is to preserve transient response, they say.

Graphs of response are provided. They do not show any of the steady ultrasonic tones that Amir measured.
 

John Deas

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Sorry to post on a bit of an old thread but a few comments. Morten Lynberg of 2L records his projects in DXD 352.8 because he prefers it to DSD and feels the format has better transient timing than lesser PCM rates (private email) - it's not just to do with frequency capture or dynamic range which as you quite correctly state are easily captured at 88.1 or 96khz. I am surprised about the 'spikes' on the lower resolutions and it would be reasonable to bring them to his attention. Classic Sound who record for the London Symphony Orchestra capture in DSD - more recently in DSD256 and mix their projects through Pyramix PCM 352.8. I asked why they don't just record in DXD like Lynberg and their reply was that converting DSD256 to DXD was less troublesome with high frequency noise ending up rendered down to their 192/24 44.1/16 material for Blu-ray and CD release - also abetter for the DSD64 for their SACD releases. Hope this of use.
 

andymok

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Sorry to post on a bit of an old thread but a few comments. Morten Lynberg of 2L records his projects in DXD 352.8 because he prefers it to DSD and feels the format has better transient timing than lesser PCM rates (private email) - it's not just to do with frequency capture or dynamic range which as you quite correctly state are easily captured at 88.1 or 96khz. I am surprised about the 'spikes' on the lower resolutions and it would be reasonable to bring them to his attention. Classic Sound who record for the London Symphony Orchestra capture in DSD - more recently in DSD256 and mix their projects through Pyramix PCM 352.8. I asked why they don't just record in DXD like Lynberg and their reply was that converting DSD256 to DXD was less troublesome with high frequency noise ending up rendered down to their 192/24 44.1/16 material for Blu-ray and CD release - also abetter for the DSD64 for their SACD releases. Hope this of use.

I've also found a set of responses from DAD explaining why choosing DXD over DSD in workflow they proposed, which I have posted in another thread. See

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...es-dsd-sound-better-than-pcm.5700/post-165972
 
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