Inside Yamaha amps

[dualazmak]

My As1100 can get very hot after hours of use. I am afraid this will not be a criteria to replace it.

Now I am getting a little bit confusing, since my A-S3000 and A-S301 (both Class-AB, AC 100V version for Japanese market) are always just warm (not hot!); the warmest part of top the panel is only about 5 degree-C above my body temperature even after 6-hour or longer continuous daily music listening in my audio setup (ref. here).

On the other hand, my SONY TA-A1ES, quasi-Class-A integrated amp, becomes considerably hot, say around 50 - 55 deg-C, during usual operation which is just normal for its "quasi-Class-A" architecture.

My ACCUPHASE E-460 (Class-AB) is always just slightly warm similar to YAMAHA A-S3000...

 

[Viriatusrex]

I assume that your A-S2200 has to be fully overhauled or replaced with a new one.
How is the progress of your on-going contact(s)/communication with Yamaha on this issue?

Yamaha Customer Support has only given me notice that my request has been given a number for referencing... still waiting for further news from them

 

[Viriatusrex]

Now I am getting a little bit confusing, since my A-S3000 and A-S301 (both Class-AB, AC 100V version for Japanese market) are always just warm (not hot!); the warmest part of top the panel is only about 5 degree-C above my body temperature even after 6-hour or longer continuous daily music listening in my audio setup (ref. here).

On the other hand, my SONNY TA-A1ES, quasi-Class-A integrated amp, becomes considerably hot, say around 50 - 55 deg-C, during usual operation which is just normal for its "quasi-Class-A" architecture.

My ACCUPHASE E-460 (Class-AB) is always just slightly warm similar to YAMAHA A-S3000...

From Yamaha customer support website, its about DSP AV Receivers though:

"Title
Audio & Visual: Is it OK if the top of the amplifier becomes very hot?
Description
Applicable models: DSP AV Receivers

Due to unavoidable temperature variations that depend on the main amp power level, number of channels, listening circumstances, and operating environment, the temperature at the top of the amplifier can exceed 40℃, but there is no need for worry, because Yamaha has verified safety even at abnormally high temperatures.

Furthermore, in the unlikely event that the temperature becomes abnormally high, the amplifier power is shut off automatically.
Nevertheless, keep the glass doors open during use to promote good ventilation and provide at least 5 cm of clearance above the unit to prevent trapping heat."

 

[Viriatusrex]

Well.... the plot thickens.... sadly... today after one hour of playing, as I went to replace the cd on the player, I noticed the amp started to make a hum of around 100hz and then it faded away and then came back up like 30 seconds after and faded again.
Im positive this isnt normal.
Guess I ll have to send it back

 

[Overseas]

Mmm, if you look some pages back here I posted my listening impressions for AS2200, as I wanted very very much to upgrade from AS1100. Well, suffice to say I returned it. But I am wondering whether Yamaha lost its rigour in the current models....

 

[Overseas]

Humming... the toroidal!?

 

[Viriatusrex]

Humming... the toroidal!?

Could be, I feel it comes from the front of the amp, but I could be wrong.. it just comes and goes comes and goes... its kind of freaking me out..

 

[Doodski]

Could be, I feel it comes from the front of the amp, but I could be wrong.. it just comes and goes comes and goes... its kind of freaking me out..

Toroidal transformers will hum if DC is present on the AC mains and... if the mounting bolt is loose they will hum too.

 

[Viriatusrex]

Toroidal transformers will hum if DC is present on the AC mains and... if the mounting bolt is loose they will hum too.

And do you think could that cause the other issues (sound gaps, overheating?)

 

[Doodski]

And do you think could that cause the other issues (sound gaps, overheating?)

That is unrelated in my opinion. Overheating is usually caused by too low of impedance at the speaker terminals, a lot of bass added to the sound at high volume levels, too small of heatsink and being in a cabinet. This is a nice cooler company with various packages available. As per sound gaps the description is a bit hard to diagnose.

MULTIFAN S1, Quiet USB Cooling Fan, 80mm

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[Viriatusrex]

No, that is unrelated.

That is unrelated in my opinion. Overheating is usually caused by too low of impedance at the speaker terminals, a lot of bass added to the sound at high volume levels, too small of heatsink and being in a cabinet. This is a nice cooler company with various packages available. As per sound gaps the description is a bit hard to diagnose.

MULTIFAN S1, Quiet USB Cooling Fan, 80mm

Your source to create smart growing systems with components including advance grow tents, inline fans, clip-on fans, LED grow lights, and UIS™ controllers.

acinfinity.com

Equipment Cooling - ELECTRONICS COOLING - AV Receiver Fans - AC Infinity

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Thank you. The thing is, compared to many setups ive seen where the A-S2200 has stuff stacked on top and its very enclosed, mine has a lot more cooling space, or at least I think so. After 2 or 3 hours of use it gets hot to the point of kind of being unpleasant to touch the top and I can even " smell the temperature" (not burnt smell, just this hot metal smell, if it makes any sense).
As for the gaps , while I turn volume up or down, it sometimes causes the sound to mute for a fraction of a second and even to make a relay click (when lowering volume) , this tends to happen when the amp is hot.

 

[Doodski]

Thank you. The thing is, compared to many setups ive seen where the A-S2200 has stuff stacked on top and its very enclosed, mine has a lot more cooling space, or at least I think so. After 2 or 3 hours of use it gets hot to the point of kind of being unpleasant to touch the top and I can even " smell the temperature" (not burnt smell, just this hot metal smell, if it makes any sense).

Ahhh that hot eh (sic)... Sigh* You don't want that. Heat is what makes a lot of electronics fail. The capacitors get baked and the transistors start making severe distortion and eventually the unit requires service for overheated and dissociated solder or a blown amp. Get at least 2 fans sucking air out of the amplifier and things will operate better and for much longer than with no fan in a tight confine.

As for the gaps , while I turn volume up or down, it sometimes causes the sound to mute for a fraction of a second and even to make a relay click (when lowering volume) , this tends to happen when the amp is hot.

I think your amp is overheating and the thermal sense circuitry is triggering the relay. I can't be 100% sure although under the circumstances and description is really seems like thermal protection. Use 2, 80mm fans but better is 2, 120mm fans or a blower squirrel cage type on top is good too because they are quieter and move more air. That is if you want to keep using the amp in a stand/case.

AIRCOM S8, Receiver and AV Component Cooling Blower System, Rear Exhaust 17"

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AIRCOM S10, Receiver and AV Component Cooling Blower System, Front Exhaust 17"

Your source to create smart growing systems with components including advance grow tents, inline fans, clip-on fans, LED grow lights, and UIS™ controllers.

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AIRCOM T10, Receiver and AV Component Cooling Fan System, Front Exhaust 17"

Your source to create smart growing systems with components including advance grow tents, inline fans, clip-on fans, LED grow lights, and UIS™ controllers.

acinfinity.com

 

[Viriatusrex]

Ahhh that hot eh (sic)... Sigh* You don't want that. Heat is what makes a lot of electronics fail. The capacitors get baked and the transistors start making severe distortion and eventually the unit requires service for overheated and dissociated solder or a blown amp. Get at least 2 fans sucking air out of the amplifier and things will operate better and for much longer than with no fan in a tight confine.

I think your amp is overheating and the thermal sense circuitry is triggering the relay. I can't be 100% sure although under the circumstances and description is really seems like thermal protection. Use 2, 80mm fans but better is 2, 120mm fans or a blower squirrel cage type on top is good too because they are quieter and move more air. That is if you want to keep using the amp in a stand/case.

AIRCOM S8, Receiver and AV Component Cooling Blower System, Rear Exhaust 17"

Your source to create smart growing systems with components including advance grow tents, inline fans, clip-on fans, LED grow lights, and UIS™ controllers.

acinfinity.com

AIRCOM S10, Receiver and AV Component Cooling Blower System, Front Exhaust 17"

Your source to create smart growing systems with components including advance grow tents, inline fans, clip-on fans, LED grow lights, and UIS™ controllers.

acinfinity.com

AIRCOM T10, Receiver and AV Component Cooling Fan System, Front Exhaust 17"

Your source to create smart growing systems with components including advance grow tents, inline fans, clip-on fans, LED grow lights, and UIS™ controllers.

acinfinity.com

Thank you very much

Thank you!
I'm currently trying to chose a pair of 120mm fans or a pair of cages with the lowest noise ratings, unfortunately the cages I've found so far have higher noise ratings than the fans, so I'll probably go with 2x120mm fans.
As for the hum from the amp, do you think a DC blocker like the one from Ifi would help me with that issue?

 

[Doodski]

Thank you!

You are welcome.

I'm currently trying to chose a pair of 120mm fans or a pair of cages with the lowest noise ratings, unfortunately the cages I've found so far have higher noise ratings than the fans, so I'll probably go with 2x120mm fans.

120mm fans are pretty quiet as well it is a very common size. There are 140mm fans too and the sound emitted is usually even lower than 120mm.

As for the hum from the amp, do you think a DC blocker like the one from Ifi would help me with that issue?

Before adding a DC blocker the amp transformer mounting bolt should be checked for proper tightness/torque setting. Otherwise the DC Blocker+ has more current capacity and that is what you should try to use. If your amp is in warranty Yamaha should assess the amp's transformer.

iFi DC Blocker+ | Reduces transformer hum in Audio Systems

DC Blocker+ reduces transformer hum, particularly in amplifiers using a toroidal transformer, thereby unlocking the sonic potential of your audio systems.

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[Viriatusrex]

You are welcome.

120mm fans are pretty quiet as well it is a very common size. There are 140mm fans too and the sound emitted is usually even lower than 120mm.

Before adding a DC blocker the amp transformer mounting bolt should be checked for proper tightness/torque setting. Otherwise the DC Blocker+ has more current capacity and that is what you should try to use. If your amp is in warranty Yamaha should assess the amp's transformer.

iFi DC Blocker+ | Reduces transformer hum in Audio Systems

DC Blocker+ reduces transformer hum, particularly in amplifiers using a toroidal transformer, thereby unlocking the sonic potential of your audio systems.

ifi-audio.com

Hummm, well I "presented the soundgap case" to Yamaha support almost 2 weeks ago and so far no real feedback...
I guess then, even before buying the fans I should wait for them to give me further instructions...
Honestly I'm kind of missing my humble A-S 501, that never gave me any headaches in almost 5 years of use

 

[Doodski]

Hummm, well I "presented the soundgap case" to Yamaha support almost 2 weeks ago and so far no real feedback...
I guess then, even before buying the fans I should wait for them to give me further instructions...
Honestly I'm kind of missing my humble A-S 501, that never gave me any headaches in almost 5 years of use

Please keep in mind that if the transformer is defective or loose and you don't take it to Yamaha for warranty service then you may be stuck with a unit that needs a new transformer or it is loose and does not get tightened. Either way the excess heat is caused by being enclosed in a cabinet and is not related to the transformer hum. So buy the fans if you like. Yamaha gear in general is usually problem free and long term reliable so I think you simply have DC on the AC mains or a loose transformer. It is remotely possible that the transformer has a issue and it does happen rarely so that's why I think you should take it to Yamaha Service.

 

[Viriatusrex]

I've just sent another email to Yamaha support asking them if they will address my issue anytime soon, or if I should go directly to one of their support technicians with the amp on my back and the warranty on my hands
Hummm, I guess one 140mm fan wont do the same trick as 2 smaller ones, right?

 

[Doodski]

I've just sent another email to Yamaha support asking them if they will address my issue anytime soon, or if I should go directly to one of their support technicians with the amp on my back and the warranty on my hands
Hummm, I guess one 140mm fan wont do the same trick as 2 smaller ones, right?

Nope... Use 2 fans... Both above the heatsink(s) in the amp. That way they can rotate slower, make less noise and move more air doing that. Yamaha is dragging it's feet on this one. That is if it got the first message you sent them. If you go 140mm use 2 again above the heatsink(s). The idea is to stop thermal protection from engaging and to extend the life of this beautiful amp. The cooler the amp runs the longer it lives.

 

[ZolaIII]

I've just sent another email to Yamaha support asking them if they will address my issue anytime soon, or if I should go directly to one of their support technicians with the amp on my back and the warranty on my hands
Hummm, I guess one 140mm fan wont do the same trick as 2 smaller ones, right?

You need fans that can give some air pressure while spinning relatively slow and therefore being quiet.
I recommend Artic P14 Max on 30~40% PWM having enough pressure, staying quiet and avoiding their 160 Hz fundamental going trough (from 50% PWM) and as they are cheap and should last long. Try to find a 5 peace's bulk pack.

Arctic P14 Max Review - The Best 140mm Fan? - Page 7 of 10 - Hardware Busters

Hardware Busters - Arctic P14 Max Review - The Best 140mm Fan? - Cooling

hwbusters.com

You will need a controller and power source for it, don't know would the standard USB charger fit the need, it probably would as you won't run it on high spin and there for 12V rail.

 

[Audiofire]

Really badly designed/manufactured (amp). I would use fans as a last resort, with DC wall adapter. Otherwise get money back or another amp.