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Inside High res Music (Antonio Forcione) (Video)

amirm

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#1
Old timers have seen these videos which I had post under my personal name on Youtube. But many of you have not so I am uploading them to my new channel:

An objective analysis of two high resolution tracks to see if the full spectrum is utilized and any artifacts within. These videos are were produce a couple of years ago so apologize for lower quality of my voice recording.

 

Eddy

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#3
@amirm
Around 5:00 min you said that the artifacts in the high-frequency range (above the audible range) can drive the tweeter and cause intermodulation distortion that actually can fall back in the audible band. Conversely, does this mean that real information in this high-frequency range can also help to reproduce the audible signal more realistically?
 

Andysu

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#4
Amir, can you please change the waterfall to multi-colour.
Blue background
Green is low
Yellow low medium
Orange mild
Red high
Pink very high
White extremely Loud!

The spectrum waterfall was more aimed for radio astronomy and ham radio to pinpoint radio signals.


Want to see some high frequency rare on most movies. ALIEN 3, the cat scan scene. Whoa! 18KHz can anyone here hear that? Should feel like a pinching effect on the ear membrane.
Spec Alien3 1.jpg
 
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#5
It's funny... recently I downloaded the Clandestine Amigo album from PS Audio's Octave Records - I was curious what a "properly" recorded music sounds like on my stereo. I must say I really liked it but when I stuck my phone with a spectrum analyzer app in front of the tweeter, there was a visible tone at 18 kHz in the frequency spectrum but only when the singer was singing. I was able to see clearly when the vocal mic slider was pulled up. :)
 
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Andysu

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#6
Toccata In D Minor [Bach] Rollerball.
52 secs shows nice lows on the pipe organ notes.
roller spec.jpg
 

Koeitje

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#7
@amirm
Around 5:00 min you said that the artifacts in the high-frequency range (above the audible range) can drive the tweeter and cause intermodulation distortion that actually can fall back in the audible band. Conversely, does this mean that real information in this high-frequency range can also help to reproduce the audible signal more realistically?
No, because if the instrument was making those harmonics it is already captured in the hearable range.
 

Andysu

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#8
Sneaked in to see this "AA" movie when it played at the local in screen 1, cinerama curved with the original overhead surrounds flush in the ceiling, september '75 and that was before Star Wars had Dolby Stereo in screen 1 and screen 2.


Bear finds multi colour spectrum fascinating, just as long as he doesn't start attacking the oled.
 

voodooless

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#10
Good to highlight this. I hope I was a bit of inspiration since I did something similar, but far less eloquent, back in the now closed and controversial MQA topic ;).

All of this inevitably leads to questions about the usefulness of high-res audio. For that one, I'll need an extra-large portion of popcorn :eek:.
 

ted92

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#11
Well explained. Thanks for all the work and explanations.
So we get garbage above 25 kHz, to make it simple. But this is out of audible and it could (really ?) introduce interference in the chain of sound production and create audible interferences. Well.

Question of a newbie about what 196 kHz sampling could bring.
I thought that the purpose is to bring a better (more precise) definition of the music in the audible range (not to bring any sound above 20 kHz).
Isn't it interesting to have analog frequencies converted to digital (and back to analog) at 196 kHz rather than 48 kHz (4+ times more details) ?
Even if, mathematicaly speeking a frequency of 24 kHz can be reproduced with a sampling of 48 kHz. Isn't 196 kHz sampling bringing some nuances that makes the difference between a good feeling recording and an amazing one.
Can't we analyze this ?
Am I wrong ?
 

DSJR

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#12
I'd remind you all that modern tweeters (metal types especially and it appears the JBL waveguide types too?) take off between 20 and 30kHz, often by 10dB or more. Back in the days of red book CD's it probably didn't matter, but with so-called hi-res files with all manner of 'muck' up there, maybe it's worth considering now.
 

charleski

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#14
One thing I've found is that some mastering engineers will brickwall limit tracks to something like -0.3dB. The music never hits 0dB so the red light doesn't come on, but of course the track is still clipped, and audibly so. Here's a particularly egregious example from 2017:
Clipping.PNG
 

BDWoody

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#15
I thought that the purpose is to bring a better (more precise) definition of the music in the audible range (not to bring any sound above 20 kHz).
That's the common misconception. The only thing gained by using a higher sampling rate is a higher frequency being captured, not a more accurate reconstruction.

44.1kHz samples rate gives you up to 22.05 kHz frequency response. 96 gives you up to 48, 192 gives you up to 96, etc. That's all you get. That's baked into sampling theory.

At 44.1 kHz, you are able to get everything audible, so there's no need for more. I'd like to see 48 kHz be more standard to give a little more room for proper filters, but it isn't at all necessary.
 

polmuaddib

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#16
I think there were a couple of these similar videos made by Amir couple of years ago. Eye opening.
Thanks for doing this.
I will have to watch again those older ones. Don't remember if Amir found one HiRes recording that was truly HiRes all the way without artifacts...
 
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#17
One thing I've found is that some mastering engineers will brickwall limit tracks to something like -0.3dB. The music never hits 0dB so the red light doesn't come on, but of course the track is still clipped, and audibly so. Here's a particularly egregious example from 2017:
View attachment 127878
Yes, this can be seen quite often nowadays. And it drives me mad too. Why do they ruin what could otherwise be a great music...? One good example is an album called "Woman to Woman" by Beverley Craven, Judie Tzuke and Julia Fordham. Gorgeous songs but the recording quality is awful - a lot of compression, clipping... :facepalm:
 

voodooless

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#18
Yes, this can be seen quite often nowadays. And it drives me mad too. Why do they ruin what could otherwise be a great music...? One good example is an album called "Woman to Woman" by Beverley Craven, Judie Tzuke and Julia Fordham. Gorgeous songs but the recording quality is awful - a lot of compression, clipping... :facepalm:
Hey might want to avoid inter-sample overs, In this way, it creates a tiny bit softer way of clipping.
 

CRKebschull

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#19
Yes indeed, I paid extra for a 96 KHz FLAC purchase of Spoon's Hot Thoughts album:

1620128743571.png


And this is what the file contains:

1620128953334.png


It's got "real" audio up to 24kHz and crap from 24 - 48 kHz.

As they say, caveat emptor. You just get ripped off buying "Hi Res" versions of albums online. If you're realllly lucky you might even get a PDF with the liner notes along with it, more likely just the cover art image, and 50% non-musical content.

Pay less, buy the CD, rip it to FLAC and key the liner notes, and enjoy the content you paid for.
 
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#20
Old timers have seen these videos which I had post under my personal name on Youtube. But many of you have not so I am uploading them to my new channel:

An objective analysis of two high resolution tracks to see if the full spectrum is utilized and any artifacts within. These videos are were produce a couple of years ago so apologize for lower quality of my voice recording.

Thank you for this review, and I’m just happy to know the truth about what is happening with the measurements. It also makes me wonder how all of my gear would measure.
 
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