Insanely Expensive Audio

[Frank Dernie]

I bridle as much as the next forum member at crazy audio prices.

But this thread reminds me of a fairly recent experience. My pal does some reviewing and received a Top Wing Blue Dragon Cartridge. When he told me this cartridge retailed for $12,500 USD I just shook my head. (I no longer actually burst out laughing...the number of crazy-priced items he's had pass through his place has inured me to hearing the crazy prices).

That price seemed insane for a tiny little cartridge.

But...holy cow! I'd been listening to his system for years and years (same turntable) and I'd never heard anything like that come through his system from his turntable. Record after record was just head-shakingly vivid, detailed and realistic.

That's totally anecdotal so I don't expect it to carry any weight here. But I admit I left thinking ...if that cartridge *really did* perform the way it sounded to us, well...if you have the money.....

Well cartridges vary enormously and there are so many bits of them to vary in stiffness, mass and add or subtract to/from the signal in their layout, from stylus shape, cantilever design, pivot design, damper material, magnetic circuit and body structure.
OTOH absolutely the only expensive, and then not -that- expensive part of cartridges is the stylus and, sometimes, cantilever.
Manufacturing precision is important and difficult and it is actually unlikley that the very expensive hand built cartridges could all be close to each other in tolerance. Maybe Ortofon and Audio Technica have the tooling to do it, most won't.
I find it the story that some makers select their cartridges and give them a name based on the performance despite them all being made to be the same entirely believable.
The only justification for a price like that is the same as the fashion business, not anything to do with designing and making it.
BTW if you like vivid, detailed and realistic Deccas (London as they are known now) are my favourite and much less expensive than that!
http://www.londondeccaaudio.com
I have a Super Gold. The older ones can be sent in for a rebuild and are highly prized because of the body structure. It has, IMO, the most logical transducer layout though as a result it is extremely sensitive to warps and dirt.

 

[Hypnotoad]

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2019-editors-choice-awards-loudspeakers-100000-and-up/

The best thing to do is not listen to these speakers then you don't know what you're missing. The Ostrich approach.

 

[Purité Audio]

Of everything ask, ‘what is it unto itself’, these are all passive speakers , I suspect some measure pretty well, many haven’t been measured at all at any point of their creation.
It would be interesting to compare them unsighted ( Harman style) against a relatively inexpensive but fine measuring loudspeaker such as the Revel Salons.
Keith

 

[Frank Dernie]

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2019-editors-choice-awards-loudspeakers-100000-and-up/

The best thing to do is not listen to these speakers then you don't know what you're missing. The Ostrich approach.

When I had a good income and, since I actually hate evaluating hifi, I decided to make a once and for all speaker choice I travelled around for about 2 years listening to everything with a good reputation, regardless of price. Most were pretty good, my end preference, found by accident when I went to listen to something else, has given me good service for over 20 years now.
It does seem that things have got even more daft, price wise, though. It is inconceivable to me that the R&D, materials and manufacturing cost of anything as simple and basic as a passive loudspeaker could possibly deserve the prices asked.
I am sure my choice would be different if I did the same thing now, but I don't have the income any more and am still extremely happy with my choice. I would be comparing things to the B&O Beolab 90 nowadays I expect.

 

[svart-hvitt]

When I had a good income and, since I actually hate evaluating hifi, I decided to make a once and for all speaker choice I travelled around for about 2 years listening to everything with a good reputation, regardless of price. Most were pretty good, my end preference, found by accident when I went to listen to something else, has given me good service for over 20 years now.
It does seem that things have got even more daft, price wise, though. It is inconceivable to me that the R&D, materials and manufacturing cost of anything as simple and basic as a passive loudspeaker could possibly deserve the prices asked.
I am sure my choice would be different if I did the same thing now, but I don't have the income any more and am still extremely happy with my choice. I would be comparing things to the B&O Beolab 90 nowadays I expect.

Regarding R&D costs: Wasn’t the Okto dac conceived during the engineer’s MSc thesis? So how big can those R&D costs really be?

(Obviously bigger in speaker design than electronics, but many electronics producers claim a lot of R&D went into the process...).

 

[cjfrbw]

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2019-editors-choice-awards-loudspeakers-100000-and-up/

The best thing to do is not listen to these speakers then you don't know what you're missing. The Ostrich approach.

Actually, I have found listening to them one of the best antidotes. Some of them can be real duds, and some sound great, but by no means do they sound proportionate to price. Some less expensive speakers can sound a lot better than the edifice ones, and the edifice ones do not necessarily dominate the sound quality sphere.

I have used distributed speakers with surround sound, and found that even with relatively modest speakers, that kind of system creates much better room control and ambience than almost any big audiophile speakers at any cost.

I regard many of the very high cost speakers as expensive furniture that happen to make sound.

The vast majority of home systems just do not demand that kind of expense if you are merely interested in sound quality. If you want true, undistorted 120db peaks and absolute linear sound, then yes, you will spend a lot of money and need a very large room. For the kind of satisfying sound most audiophiles crave with about 100db to 105db peaks and good resolution in a home listening room, you don't.

 

[Hypnotoad]

I have used distributed speakers with surround sound, and found that even with relatively modest speakers, that kind of system creates much better room control and ambience than almost any big audiophile speakers at any cost.

Interesting you should say that as one afternoon my ex-brother in law came over with his B&O system, he had this little surround sound box from B&O so we used my floor standers as the main speakers and his Beovox S-45's at the sides. The sound was remarkable to say the least, it really felt like you were in a concert hall. I always wondered what was in that little box.

 

[Shadrach]

I was 50% owner and co-founder of WBF with Steve and he still banned me! So you all had no prayer.

Something seems to happen to hi fi forum owners after a while.
Some start wanting to make money from the forum. Others get offered free equipment for favorable reviews. Some get power crazed and believe someone give a toss about what they think. The list of ailments is extensive.
I used to visit CA. It started off quite well. I don't go there any more.
I've been banned from two forums so far and left a few others in sheer disgust.
What do you think will happen to you amirm?

 

[DonH56]

Since he owns this forum I suspect he'll be around for a while...

 

[Sal1950]

If you had the room and the money, I imagine the active Magico Ultimate III would knock your socks off with incredible dynamics and such.

 

[Ron Texas]

Something seems to happen to hi fi forum owners after a while.
Some start wanting to make money from the forum. Others get offered free equipment for favorable reviews. Some get power crazed and believe someone give a toss about what they think. The list of ailments is extensive.
I used to visit CA. It started off quite well. I don't go there any more.
I've been banned from two forums so far and left a few others in sheer disgust.
What do you think will happen to you amirm?

CA forums are a bit of a disappointment although some of the articles are worthwhile.

It's ridiculously easy to get banned from a forum. Users have no rights. I was banned from two large photography forums with no warning.

Some forum owners eventually get bored or tired of it and sell the operation.

 

[Purité Audio]

Heard those in Munich a few years back, they weren’t syrupy/coloured like most horns, music selection was very strictly controlled though ,girl guitar, man guitar etc etc.
I remember we went into the Tune Audio room immediately after and they sounded incredibly muffled in comparison.

Keith

 

[Purité Audio]

CA forums are a bit of a disappointment although some of the articles are worthwhile.

It's ridiculously easy to get banned from a forum. Users have no rights. I was banned from two large photography forums with no warning.

Some forum owners eventually get bored or tired of it and sell the operation.

CA was really good at the start, then advertising was taken and the rest is self evident .
Keith

 

[Ron Texas]

If you had the room and the money, I imagine the active Magico Ultimate III would knock your socks off with incredible dynamics and such.

If I had the room and that kind of money, I would probably get Salon 2's with electronics from a solid company with a US distribution and service network. I just wouldn't want those weird things in my living room. Those things look like weapons.

Wait, I can kick my wife out. Then I have the room, and I can afford Salon 2's now.

 

[Ron Texas]

CA was really good at the start, then advertising was taken and the rest is self evident .
Keith

"We hold these truths to be self evident." Thomas Jefferson, US Declaration of Independence.

 

[Sal1950]

Wait, I can kick my wife out. Then I have the room, and I can afford Salon 2's now.

Now you got your mind right. HiFi gives you untold hours of pleasure every week, the wife only a few minutes a month.

 

[HammerSandwich]

If you had the room and the money, I imagine the active Magico Ultimate III would knock your socks off with incredible dynamics and such.

I imagine similar reactions to a custom-built room with JBL horns at ~10% of the cost.

 

[617]

If you had the room and the money, I imagine the active Magico Ultimate III would knock your socks off with incredible dynamics and such.

The original version of this used the Behringer DCX 2496 crossover if I remember correctly.

 

[fitero]

Possibly, once you've kicked out your wife and re-count your pennies, you'd notice that your net-worth had drifted south by about 50 percent. Back to step one.

 

[decoRyder]

Now you got your mind right. HiFi gives you untold hours of pleasure every week, the wife only a few minutes a month.

Let's hope the wife never reads that comment, otherwise it'll be "only a few minutes a year" : )