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Insanely Expensive Audio

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Ron Texas

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Completely agree. Although the ESD system is insanely priced, you can see where a whole lot of money is spend.
I find it much less offensive than $10,000 power cords and $30,000 speaker cables containing less then $50 in materials. ( But tens of thousand spent on spinning marketing BS and advertising in the "right" places.)

To me, the design doesn't make sense. Some around here are in love with the JBL M2. I never heard one, so I can't pass judgment, but it looks odd to me. Perhaps extreme dynamic range and max SPL is their holy grail. Perhaps it's a matter of taste, but expensive cables make me laugh.

For me this hobby is about finding stuff that really sounds great and doesn't cost a huge amount. It's possible.
 

Blumlein 88

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To me, the design doesn't make sense. Some around here are in love with the JBL M2. I never heard one, so I can't pass judgment, but it looks odd to me. Perhaps extreme dynamic range and max SPL is their holy grail. Perhaps it's a matter of taste, but expensive cables make me laugh.

For me this hobby is about finding stuff that really sounds great and doesn't cost a huge amount. It's possible.

Your comment reminds me of something. Early on my sound quality for music was limited by my gear. Spending extra money did genuinely improve it some. So I did periodically when I could afford to or when I heard something that made me go WOW! Like hearing electrostats the first time. So for a good many years it was simply being able to send more resources in that direction. By then you are addicted to the regular improvement. You either run out of places to make things better or run out of money to do more. And of course more money isn't always the answer. It is after that I became more serious about bang for buck efficiency, and in the process became aware of where I had been mislead somewhat. Plus a good part of our playback chain these days can be seriously good for not much money. Speakers still being something of an exception.
 

watchnerd

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Your comment reminds me of something. Early on my sound quality for music was limited by my gear. Spending extra money did genuinely improve it some. So I did periodically when I could afford to or when I heard something that made me go WOW! Like hearing electrostats the first time. So for a good many years it was simply being able to send more resources in that direction. By then you are addicted to the regular improvement. You either run out of places to make things better or run out of money to do more. And of course more money isn't always the answer. It is after that I became more serious about bang for buck efficiency, and in the process became aware of where I had been mislead somewhat. Plus a good part of our playback chain these days can be seriously good for not much money. Speakers still being something of an exception.

Bang for buck efficiency as in very sensitive speakers, or just generally meaning "good value for money"?
 

Blumlein 88

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Bang for buck efficiency as in very sensitive speakers, or just generally meaning "good value for money"?
Getting a sufficient level of playback quality for as reasonable a price I can.

I no longer need to look for magic DACs, or esoteric amps. Speakers are still important. Everything other than speaker and sorta kinda amps can be inexpensive without taking a toll on sound quality coming out of the speakers. So "good value for money".
 

Thomas savage

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Well, Jim poses a question, with a question mark after it. Everybody can agree upon a question.

What I like about science is its avoidance of double-speak.
Not so , just look at the fuss surrounding choosing the precise question to be presented for referendums lol
 

Thomas savage

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My old man always told me,
Keep your friends close
And your antagonists closer. ;)

Just finished Decembers "As We See It".
Jon Iverson appears to get it.
Not so sure his reviews reflect that.
If stereophile was a woman you would of divorced her years ago,, come on sal you know it’s true .
 

Sal1950

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Some around here are in love with the JBL M2. I never heard one, so I can't pass judgment, but it looks odd to me. Perhaps extreme dynamic range and max SPL is their holy grail.
Sounds like you have passed judgement without hearing them.
I believe your falling for old cliche's and misinformation.
Beyond being able to play loud, good horns have always offered very low levels of distortion bringing levels of clarity, inner detail and speed only rivaled by good electrostatics. Their major failing was in the area of linearity, a failing long mostly solved today.
 
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Ron Texas

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Sounds like you have passed judgement without hearing them.
I believe your falling for old cliche's and misinformation.
Beyond being able to play loud, good horns have always offered very low levels of distortion bringing levels of clarity, inner detail and speed only rivaled by good electrostatics. Their major failing was in the area of linearity, a failing long mostly solved today.
Don't judge me. I can speculate without passing judgment.
 

Sergei

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My take on the Audiophile ecosystem:

There is a solid, yet subjective, basis behind the perception of better looking and more expensive gear sounding better. More pleasing visuals enhance the perception of more pleasing sound. It works the other way around too: for instance, good noise insulation and low-distorting sound system subjectively increases car's interior quality experienced visually.

On this solid neurophysiological basis, some (most?) vendors catering to audiophiles built a house of cards, carefully designed to look, sound, and feel like a temple of "absolute sound". It is held together by blatant disinformation and other psychological warfare staples. If we look at the elements of this house closely, we would see absurd, ridiculous, and puzzling elements, along with some that actually make sense. What is the general plan of that house?

First of all, the community of vendors needs to filter out non-customers, and thus increase the concentration of pre-qualified leads at the location and time of potential sale. The absurd elements are important for that filter. Same principle as the one utilized in fraudulent emails from unknown senders claiming that the recipient received a multi-million inheritance etc.

Then the vendors need to create an illusion of value. This is achieved by a two-pronged approach - the "fork". On the high end, there are well-built yet ridiculously overpriced products. On the low end, there are reasonably priced, yet ridiculously cheaply-built ones. Not so many customers are actually buying either. Yet the "fork" steers them in the direction desired by the vendors - decently built and moderately overpriced products, which are the most bought by audiophiles.

The vendors also need to create an illusion of exclusivity and cutting edge. Puzzling products serve that purpose. Here we encounter exotic materials scientifically known to be inferior in their acoustic function compared to much cheaper ones. Also, weird, long ago failed or obsolete designs, ancient enough to be forgotten by most people, and thus suitable for marketing spin painting them as fresh revelations.

Finally, there are honest-to-God vendors, such as B&W and Benchmark, whose products usually make perfect sense at the price points they are asking for. Those are absolutely necessary components of the house, lending the air of legitimacy to the whole enterprise. The composition of the audiophile shows, audiophile magazines, audiophile Web sites etc. is carefully managed by highly intelligent yet not necessarily highly ethical people.

In addition to consistently refusing doing any side-to-side statistically significant comparisons, audiophile sales representatives were caught multiple times meddling with sound level and equalization to "prove" the "superiority" of the products they were pushing. Some were literally using magic tricks to fool and convince their unsuspecting customers. Others abolished well-established laws of Physics and invented brave new ones.

The most often heard complaint from the audiophile vendors is that their market has been shrinking as of late. I think this happens not in small part due to the success of Web sites such as Audio Science Review. Keep up the good work ladies and gentlemen!
 

Sal1950

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cjfrbw

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JJB70

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If people are that bothered would it not be cheaper and easier to build a small rotary converter or a battery power supply? That would give you complete electrical isolation from the distribution system. Not that I think it necessary.
 

cjfrbw

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Oddly, I heard the big Lansche speakers with plasma tweeters at RMAF several years ago with the ultimate Ypsilon pile. It was quite ordinary sounding at best, although show conditions are always a hobbling point. The guys I was with wouldn't even hang around. Once, Fremer was in there. It was during his "Ypsilon" phase. He was bopping like it was just great, probably a promotional appearance. It was quite puzzling, I would not have even ranked it in the top 15 systems.
 

Purité Audio

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We had a pair, extremely underwhelming, and Euros 4K for a tweeter service every 4-6000 hours.
Keith
 
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Ron Texas

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Plasma is great stuff. A plasma cutting machine goes through 1" thick steel like it was butter. It's so capable that my 19 year old niece ran one for several months in a shipyard.
 

MattHooper

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I bridle as much as the next forum member at crazy audio prices.

But this thread reminds me of a fairly recent experience. My pal does some reviewing and received a Top Wing Blue Dragon Cartridge. When he told me this cartridge retailed for $12,500 USD I just shook my head. (I no longer actually burst out laughing...the number of crazy-priced items he's had pass through his place has inured me to hearing the crazy prices).

That price seemed insane for a tiny little cartridge.

But...holy cow! I'd been listening to his system for years and years (same turntable) and I'd never heard anything like that come through his system from his turntable. Record after record was just head-shakingly vivid, detailed and realistic.

That's totally anecdotal so I don't expect it to carry any weight here. But I admit I left thinking ...if that cartridge *really did* perform the way it sounded to us, well...if you have the money.....
 
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