Insanely distorting speakers or amplifiers driven into clipping?

[abdo123]

Interesting! I understand 0 of what you said but ok. My Lenovo Tablet is a closed system, so have they missed it?



Thank you all for answers and ideas!

I have to point out again that this is not really important in itself BUT I'm damn curious. Lenovo should have tested the limits with this Tablet, but if I play music with a lot of dynamism, transistent, it will clip. But it does not happen in the digital world, does it? Or? What?

Compression, hum. What is it, in this context?

But what happens if you do the same? Put on a piece with a lot of dynamics, turn up to max on Tablet, Mobile phone. How does that sound?

Compression is your speaker being asked to reproduce certain frequencies at a particular level but fail to do so because of its physical limitations.

That’s why these speakers get brighter as you turn up the volume because they lack the excursion to reproduce low frequencies in the same volume as mid and high frequencies.

 

[DanielT]

Compression is your speaker being asked to reproduce certain frequencies at a particular level but fail to do so because of its physical limitations.

That’s why these speakers get brighter as you turn up the volume because they lack the excursion to reproduce low frequencies in the same volume as mid and high frequencies.

Aha, you mean the result is distortion. They work over their capacity, or that speaker (one piece ... or two I have no idea about it) does. So then it's the speaker. Though you should know that it sounds damn like amp clipping.

That said, test for yourself. Go on with your Tablet, Mobile ..

 

[Chrispy]

Can't imagine even using the speakers on my Lenovo tablet nor caring what "amp" they have. I guess I'm missing out on tablet "Atmos" ? If I need audio I'll send it to something with real speakers Kinda like tv speakers.

 

[McFly]

I have had this in the past with laptops. Might not be the same issue but I will share my story.

I opened up the laptop and got to the speakers, they were covered in clumps of iron filings stuck to the dust caps. Turns out Id been using the laptop on the same workbench I was doing cutting and grinding of steel and placing the laptop on the bench the magnets in the speakers just hoovered the iron up into them. Never bothered to fix it.

Could get the same thing if using a tablet in a kitchen after sharpening knives, or if you work with metal at work and filings fill your clothes/pockets.

 

[DanielT]

Can't imagine even using the speakers on my Lenovo tablet nor caring what "amp" they have. I guess I'm missing out on tablet "Atmos" ? If I need audio I'll send it to something with real speakers Kinda like tv speakers.

Try. Plug in and turn on the volume, just give it hell. And it must be hell high volume, mostly sound / music with extreme dynamics, peaks and valleys, especially large peaks in dynamics, sounds.

Edit:
By the way, now I'm starting to get a little worried. Have you never maxed out your Hifi systems at any time? If not, how can you know what it is capable of? This does not specifically apply to you Chrispy but everyone who does not even dare turn the volume on their Tablet, / Mobile.

Edit:
Test with some cheap rubbish if you do not want to risk burning the fine HiFi system.

R.I.P

Burt Reynolds - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Holmz]

Interesting! I understand 0 of what you said but ok. My Lenovo Tablet is a closed system, so have they missed it?

Let me make it easy…
Plug in some ear bids. If it sounds bad there, then it could be digital clipping or something other than the speakers.
(Assuming that there is an earphone jack or USB output)

You would at least understand where the problem might be happening.

Thank you all for answers and ideas!

I have to point out again that this is not really important in itself BUT I'm damn curious. Lenovo should have tested the limits with this Tablet, but if I play music with a lot of dynamism, transistent, it will clip. But it does not happen in the digital world, does it? Or? What?

Compression, hum. What is it, in this context?

But what happens if you do the same? Put on a piece with a lot of dynamics, turn up to max on Tablet, Mobile phone. How does that sound?

If it does sound OK with ear buds, then one could put an outboard amp and some yard sale (or bookshelf) speakers on the desk.

 

[Chrispy]

Try. Plug in and turn on the volume, just give it hell. And it must be hell high volume, mostly sound / music with extreme dynamics, peaks and valleys, especially large peaks in dynamics, sounds.

Edit:
By the way, now I'm starting to get a little worried. Have you never maxed out your Hifi systems at any time? If not, how can you know what it is capable of? This does not specifically apply to you Chrispy but everyone who does not even dare turn the volume on their Tablet, / Mobile.

Edit:
Test with some cheap rubbish if you do not want to risk burning the fine HiFi system.

View attachment 176825

R.I.P

Burt Reynolds - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I just don't see the point of using the tablet's speakers (or the phone's other than for an actual phone call). Sure, I've tested limits with real speakers and amps.

 

[DanielT]

I just don't see the point of using the tablet's speakers (or the phone's other than for an actual phone call). Sure, I've tested limits with real speakers and amps.

When you do not connect to your Hifi of course. Listen to news, any talk show. , any pod.But this was not about the use itself, as I have pointed out several times in the thread.

Now I'll see if I can plug in some headphones. I should have some, somewhere. I rarely use headphones.

 

[DanielT]

Let me make it easy…
Plug in some ear bids. If it sounds bad there, then it could be digital clipping or something other than the speakers.
(Assuming that there is an earphone jack or USB output)

You would at least understand where the problem might be happening.



If it does sound OK with ear buds, then one could put an outboard amp and some yard sale (or bookshelf) speakers on the desk.

I did not find any ear buds, as I rarely use headphones (I know I have some, will find them later today), though:

What is this now? Connected Tablet to the amplifier. From the headphone jack, without external DAC, into an amplifier. Nop it does not cut with maximum thrust. Via Spotify. So no digital clipping.
However, the signal strength is rather low. In pictures, Tablet vs Blu-ray, Sony BDP-S570,The same sound level (Tablet vs Blu-ray) , but as you can see, how much more I have to turn up the volume with the Tablet.

I'll download an EQ app and do some work. However I do not really kknow to control the digital settings in a Tablet, but I will test.
I will also tes with DAC Topping E30.
Plus I install the player:

USB Audio Player PRO

www.extreamsd.com

If it works with Topping E30, if there are drivers that is.

 

[ZolaIII]

First tablet which I heard that sounded (and looked) deacent whose Galaxy Tab S5e. Unfortunately Samsung doungraded both on all but top of the line newer ones.

 

[DanielT]

Right now I am testing further, a few different apps, to boost the volume, plus dB measuring apps.

About there it starts to sound bad, see picture. Though it may be due to the speakers themselves. JPW P1, 8 Ohm speakers. I'll check out their SPL. Amplifier HK 670, 80 W in 8 Ohm.

These crap mobiles, of course, the app dB meter only goes up to 80 dB. Then the microphone in the mobile does not manage to measure higher. Useless.

 

[DanielT]

First tablet which I heard that sounded (and looked) deacent whose Galaxy Tab S5e. Unfortunately Samsung doungraded both on all but top of the line newer ones.

But if you plug in an external DAC, you take out the digital signal from the Tablet. Then you disconnect the Tablet's internal DAC. Then these players, to control, bypass, the limitations of Android.

High quality media player for Android

Has this been tested? Is what is said true? Anyone have this player? Experiences? HIGH QUALITY MEDIA PLAYER FOR ANDROID Supporting USB audio DACs to play audio files up to 32-bit resolution at any sample rate! Will play any popular format including wav, flac, wavpack, ape, mp3 and DSD files...

audiosciencereview.com

The amplifier and speaker in my Tablet, in themselves, are of course completely useless.

 

[ZolaIII]

@DanielT of course I meant on in bilt speakers. Know a rather bit about dongles and flasks (even have one that doesn't need OTG).

 

[DanielT]

@DanielT of course I meant on in bilt speakers. Know a rather bit about dongles and flasks (even have one that doesn't need OTG).

Aha, I misunderstood. Was almost a little worried there.

 

[DanielT]

I'm not getting any wiser on this shit. I give up. Turns to tinkering with something more sensible instead. I cut my toenails.

Thanks for all the help and ideas!

 

[Holmz]

I did not find any ear buds, as I rarely use headphones (I know I have some, will find them later today), though:

What is this now? Connected Tablet to the amplifier. From the headphone jack, without external DAC, into an amplifier. Nop it does not cut with maximum thrust. Via Spotify. So no digital clipping.
…

Bra gjort!

 

[Chrispy]

When you do not connect to your Hifi of course. Listen to news, any talk show. , any pod.But this was not about the use itself, as I have pointed out several times in the thread.

Now I'll see if I can plug in some headphones. I should have some, somewhere. I rarely use headphones.

I'd say our use is just different I don't use the tablet to listen to news or a talk show...I have av systems for that. I don't use headphones either, haven't even tried with this pad now that you mention it. I just never had any expectation that the audio inherent in a phone or tablet will just be inadequate for use

 

[DanielT]

I'd say our use is just different I don't use the tablet to listen to news or a talk show...I have av systems for that. I don't use headphones either, haven't even tried with this pad now that you mention it. I just never had any expectation that the audio inherent in a phone or tablet will just be inadequate for use

As mentioned earlier, the sound in mobiles, tablets in themselves (the built-in speakers) is awful, but everyone knows that.
The purpose of the thread, my question is not that I would like to get better sound from my Tablet (it is not possible, the small speaker is useless). It is about figuring out what type of distortion it is about. I was curious about that.

Do you play streamed music? What computer / software do you use? To use mobile, tablet to stream. Computer as computer. They can be top notch in terms of sound quality.Just extract the digital signal from them and plug in an external DAC. That is what many do. Then as usual the quality of the recording itself, but that's another matter.

Mobile phones and sound quality

Most of the time reviews of mobiles focus on screen, camera, power, weight, whatever but rarely on sound quality. Most of the time one can’t even find out what DAC has been used. Found and exception to this rule...

audiosciencereview.com

Apple lossless and your setup

Some days ago I wrote in the thread: "Apple Music announces Spatial Audio..." ...

audiosciencereview.com

Androids are a little trickier, due to the sound processors in them, but it is apparently possible to bypass them using, for example, one of these:

High quality media player for Android

Has this been tested? Is what is said true? Anyone have this player? Experiences? HIGH QUALITY MEDIA PLAYER FOR ANDROID Supporting USB audio DACs to play audio files up to 32-bit resolution at any sample rate! Will play any popular format including wav, flac, wavpack, ape, mp3 and DSD files...

audiosciencereview.com

There are lots of threads about it:

DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface

Review, measurements and discussion of the science behind digital audio and its performance.

audiosciencereview.com

A little OT, if you are a little knowledgeable with computers and can tinker with Linux, this seems to be a very affordable solution. DAC + Streamer:

Allo Boss2 Review (Stereo Streamer)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Allo Boss2 Ethernet (and wifi) streamer/player. It was sent to me by the company for testing and costs US $149 by itself. My tested configuration included the Nirvana power supply which brings the cost up to US $209. I must say, I am very...

audiosciencereview.com

Edit:
Now I end this test. I did not get much wiser about it. Well I got an idea. Now I'll fix some sensible headphones, plug them into my mobile and start walking regularly.Plus usb c dac dongel.I think tomtoo mentioned a good, cheap one, I may ask him about it.Benefit with pleasure. Thus, it was still not a complete waste of time to do what I have done in this thread.

 

[DanielT]

So ... what do you think? Test yourself. Takes ten seconds to do.

Strange , on a Hifi forum and no one who dares to test.

By the way, no leprechaun amplifies the signal and these are not magic speakers. The principle is the same as with the home Hifi system.

I do not care to test more.I am not so picky. But everyone else who puts big $ into their HiFi system. If you do not even know what noise/distorsion is due to then ..que?

 

[mhardy6647]

By the way, no leprechaun amplifies the signal and these are not magic speakers.

Of course not. This is science.
Maxwell's Demon.