Insanely distorting speakers or amplifiers driven into clipping?

[DanielT]

What do you think. I tried turning the volume up a lot on my Tablet, a Lenovo Yoga. I listened to my Lenovo, with its built-inthe amplifier / speakers. It sounded ... too damn bad. What do you think it depends on? The amplifier that is driven into the clipping or the speakers that start to distort something insane? A combination of both?

Scratchy, rattling sound. It must be the amplifier that is driven into clipping something insane, right? I think it reminds me of the sound when I drove my little mini tube amp into clipping / overdrive.

You can test yourself with your mobile phone and elker Tablet. You should hear the same thing as me. Unless modern mobiles / tablets have built-in limits? My stuff is hm two years old if I remember correctly. I do not know how this works with apple stuff.

 

[antcollinet]

Not sure what you are expecting from the built in speakers of a tablet.

Not transparency - that's for sure

 

[DanielT]

Not sure what you are expecting from the built in speakers of a tablet.

Not transparency - that's for sure

This is not a concern for me, I just do not play at such a high volume the few times I listen to something via my Tablet. I'm most curious about what it could be due to.Due to amp driven into clipping and/or speaker super distorting?

Edit:
Hm. Speakers that distort, say a subwoofer where the sound becomes, cloudy and muddy. I do not know when I hear it, maybe at 10% distortion for subwoffer? Which does not have to be so unusual by the way. A subwoffer can easily distort more than that (of course it depends on which sub we are talking about, quality of the sound / drivers that is) but it is a turbidity with a sub, not at all reminiscent of the sound in the Tablet. It, the Tablet, sounds broken, as if the speakers have cracked, when I really turn the maximum volume. But the speakers in my Lenovo are whole and not cracked.

 

[antcollinet]

Could be both. Not sure you can determine without measurements. Though my guess - it will be easier to make a tiny amp that doesn't clip than tiny speakers that don't distort.

So based on that my guess is it's more likely to be the speakers distorting.

 

[storing]

Those speakers already can't produce anything close to a flat response and low distortion (at least in all laptops I've ever had, measured by microphone and/or clear by listening) even at the lowest volumes, it's unlikely the amp would be clipping already at those volumes. Amplifiers for such low wattages which are ok-ish are rather cheap so no reason for the manufacturer to skip on them. On the other hand the speakers these days get crammed into the smallest possible space and also often cannot just be any shape. I mean whenever I saw laptop speakers I was like 'yeah no wonder this sounds crappy', but that's partly confirmation bias probably. Anyway: no idea if the amps are clipping at higher volumes, but even if they are the speakers themselves are pretty bad to start with.

 

[DanielT]

Could be both. Not sure you can determine without measurements. Though my guess - it will be easier to make a tiny amp that doesn't clip than tiny speakers that don't distort.

So based on that my guess is it's more likely to be the speakers distorting.

Maybe ... well, the speakers are not broken. Then it sounds like this, Dave Davis from The Kinks:

I'll teach it" - and slashed the speaker cone. It changed the sound of my guitar

The Kinks: How Dave Davies’ Slashed Amp Created Rock Distortion

When it comes to breakout singles, they don’t get much better than “You Really Got Me.” The 1964 track didn’t just put the Kinks on the map; it changed the rock n’ roll landscape with its incendiary guitar tone. “You Really Got Me” brought distorted guitar to the masses. It’s the genesis of all...

www.thaliacapos.com

 

[DanielT]

I wonder, ...it sounds like this anyway:

1:30 into the video, he drives amp into clipping.

Edit:
Damn, this is embarrassing. That I can not distinguish if the distortion is generated by the speaker itself or if it is done by amplifier clipping.
You can test it yourself with your Tablet, right? What do you think?

 

[DanielT]

Found this:

The strange thing is that you can hear a very clear difference with more powerful amplifiers even for something as low "Hifi" as mobile phone speakers. Amplifier clipping (as well as digital clipping) is a nuisance and usually has a completely different and much more nasty not ear-friendly signature than speaker distortion. It sounds hard and pointed, in the worst case t.o.m. crackling or directly "broken", unlike a speaker which when pressed hard definitely does not sound directly good, but usually still produces a distortion spectrum with dominance of lower orders that are more easily accepted for our hearing.

With high-dynamic recordings, you can hardly have access to too much power, at least not with a reasonably normal efficiency for the speakers.

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - 250 Watt är bra

 

[tomtoo]

What ever it is, stay out its not healty.

 

[DanielT]

What ever it is, stay out its not healty.

Lol, I just got "aspigt" fixed on this (nop I do not have Asperger's).

 

[DVDdoug]

What do you think it depends on? The amplifier that is driven into the clipping or the speakers that start to distort something insane? A combination of both?

Probably the speaker.

Normally, in a computer (or anything with the DAC & amp built-in) the amplifier (or other analog output) is able to handle the full 0dB output from the DAC so the DAC clips first and you can't clip the amp. And unless you are using EQ (or something) to boost the digital levels you won't get clipping (unless the file itself is clipped).

 

[DanielT]

Probably the speaker.

Normally, in a computer (or anything with the DAC & amp built-in) the amplifier (or other analog output) is able to handle the full 0dB output from the DAC so the DAC clips first and you can't clip the amp. And unless you are using EQ (or something) to boost the digital levels you won't get clipping (unless the file itself is clipped).

That sounds reasonable.

Speaking of sound in Tablets / Mobile Phones. The acoustics consultant, whom I referred to in my post # 8, has mentioned that manufacturers of Tablets / Mobile Phones invest quite a lot of money in designing ditto with more bass. The manufacturers know very well that it is impossible due to the laws of physics but they continue despite the fact that they only "throw the money in the lake".

 

[tomtoo]

Lol, I just got "aspigt" fixed on this (nop I do not have Asperger's).

With that littel speakers its hard.
With bigger speakers is much more easy. Amp distortion gets very fast harsh, while speaker distortion kicks more gently in. But at the end, like i said, stay out. No reason, to go into it. Its shit, this or that way.
If you like to get loud, the end is, where distortion kicks in. Sure you can get loud with distortion, but then you better play guitar on a tube amp.

 

[DanielT]

With that littel speakers its hard.
With bigger speakers is much more easy. Amp distortion gets very fast harsh, while speaker distortion kicks more gently in. But at the end, like i said, stay out. No reason, to go into it. Its shit, this or that way.
If you like to get loud, the end is, where distortion kicks in. Sure you can get loud with distortion, but then you better play guitar on a tube amp.

I put down these nonsense. It is as it is. Nothing I can do anything about but on the other hand nothing that for me has any practical significance.

This is much, MUCH more interesting (for me). See # 167

Nice turntables. Attached picture is an absolute requirement.

Design solely alike and with similar appeal to pudding key caps all do I don't support ultra limited edition (50 units only) of any gear no matter how much I appreciate artist. I ... I kinda like that. :p Even if it does look more like thermal imaging than it does a real-life tt. ;)

audiosciencereview.com

 

[raindance]

The speakers are the size of a baby's fingernail and then the manufacturer adds EQ to boost bass by 20dB and we wonder why they rattle/distort. The first thing I do with tablets and phones is to turn off the native audio EQ that is applied to make the unit stand out in the store.

 

[tomtoo]

Oh, btw get neutron player. Push up the preamp and you can hear digital distortion easy. But its different, than analog distortion, even more bad.

 

[DanielT]

Probably the speaker.

Normally, in a computer (or anything with the DAC & amp built-in) the amplifier (or other analog output) is able to handle the full 0dB output from the DAC so the DAC clips first and you can't clip the amp. And unless you are using EQ (or something) to boost the digital levels you won't get clipping (unless the file itself is clipped).

Hm, but what do you mean now? DAC , digital clipping, what is that? I have to admit, I understand... nothing.

 

[Holmz]

Probably the speaker.

Normally, in a computer (or anything with the DAC & amp built-in) the amplifier (or other analog output) is able to handle the full 0dB output from the DAC so the DAC clips first and you can't clip the amp. And unless you are using EQ (or something) to boost the digital levels you won't get clipping (unless the file itself is clipped).

I think that some of the sigma-delta gear also requires that the maximum signal be ~ -6dB relative to 0 dB(FullScale).
That makes it easy to get into digital clipping should one does not have the -6dB up front.

 

[abdo123]

It’s probably compression what you’re hearing, not distortion.

 

[DanielT]

I think that some of the sigma-delta gear also requires that the maximum signal be ~ -6dB relative to 0 dB(FullScale).
That makes it easy to get into digital clipping should one does not have the -6dB up front.

Interesting! I understand 0 of what you said but ok. My Lenovo Tablet is a closed system, so have they missed it?

It’s probably compression what you’re hearing, not distortion.

Thank you all for answers and ideas!

I have to point out again that this is not really important in itself BUT I'm damn curious. Lenovo should have tested the limits with this Tablet, but if I play music with a lot of dynamism, transistent, it will clip. But it does not happen in the digital world, does it? Or? What?

Compression, hum. What is it, in this context?

But what happens if you do the same? Put on a piece with a lot of dynamics, turn up to max on Tablet, Mobile phone. How does that sound?