Input needed: Do I really need surge protectors and other electrical system gadgets?

[DVDdoug]

Not sure I believe in filtering the ground unless this can somehow protect the gear and prevent ground loops

Most of them don't have filters (but some do). A filter will filter-out high-frequency noise but it won't generally filter-out clicks & pops (when a motor switches-on, etc.). It might help with a buzz from a light dimmer.

And, they don't fix ground loops.

A surge protector is normally a "transorb", which "switches-on" and essentially becomes a short-circuit to kill voltage spikes. These things would normally burn-up from excess current (when the voltage is above the threshold) so there is usually also a fuse that hopefully blows before the device burns-up. Or if the voltage-spike is very-short in duration, both the device and the fuse can survive. A circuit breaker is probably not fast-enough.

I’ve heard that ‘power conditioners’ can actually reduce the available current to amps

Probably not but "power conditioner" is a vague term.

 

[Holmz]

Most of them don't have filters (but some do). A filter will filter-out high-frequency noise but it won't generally filter-out clicks & pops (when a motor switches-on, etc.). It might help with a buzz from a light dimmer.

…

They claim to cut out high frequencies, so one would assume that there is a choke or (I forget the term), maybe it is a shunting capacitor”?
Basically like a condenser on an old car’s points.

So a click would be a high frequency compared to 50,60 or 120 Hz... but way less than RF. If it was really good and took out anything greater than the fundamental 50/60Hz, then a square wave with all the harmonics would have the harmonics removed.

And they also suggest that their cable (somehow) gets more current in instantaneously, to give music “more slam”. More copper can deliver enough current to blow a breaker as quick if it needs to.

It seems snake-oily, but a lot of people like those peeves of gear.

 

[Bugal1998]

That is what those units at the central location do, that I mentioned up earlier in the thread… They have some device that smokes the AC to ground, and also the brown out disconnect or, etc.

So the whole house gets protected, washing machines, refridge, etc.

I would not worry about Back EMF from a motor causing some small spike… <— Those are lot like Thor blowing you a kiss from a lighening bolt.
Statistically, if you buy lottery tickets, you probably are mathematically better off getting one of those devices instead.
(I would not worry about the power grid itself per se.)

Thank you.

So does the SurgeX panel protector count? Or is there something else you would recommend?

 

[mcdn]

In Australia my home insurance covers damage from surges caused by lightning. Suppose it can’t hurt to have something extra at the distribution board but insurance is still necessary!

 

[escksu]

Agreed!

I don't expect it to fail, but the concentrated risk of loss if it did happen is unsettling. And also because I want this gear to last a long, loooong, time. I don't fully understand it, but I've read that internal surge protection (and lower cost protectors) can break down over time leading to eventual failure.

Again not convinced one way or another so I'm seeking some hopefully objective perspectives

I guess you are referring to MOV?

How Surge Protectors Work

The surge protection process works to divert the extra electricity into the outlet's ground wire. Learn about surge protection and find out how MOV surge protectors work.

electronics.howstuffworks.com

 

[Holmz]

Thank you.

So does the SurgeX panel protector count? Or is there something else you would recommend?

I am no expert, and usually am a skeptic,so my vote should be weighted too high.
But I liked the “technical” sound of tis: https://equitech.com/home

 

[escksu]

I am not an electrical engineer nor expert. However, my company is using schneider electric power devices. So, maybe this could help.

https://blog.se.com/power-management-metering-monitoring-power-quality/2013/03/19/how-to-choose-the-right-surge-protector/

 

[Haflermichi]

Your question: "Is this money well spent to prevent problems over the long-run, or over-kill?"
Since it appears you have the resources I would say it's money well spent.

Why I feel this way:
You are staying away from MOV based protection which as a limited/unpredictable lifespan along with the additional downside of the potential for catastrophicfailu re.
You are not expecting unrealistic "sound quality" improvements.
You seem to understand that practically nothing can completely protect against lighting strikes.
You seen to understand that most "surges" come from other devices (usually motors) within the house.

Now about me.
Some time ago I had a situation where I was intermittently getting between 90 to 150 Vac in outlets all over the house.
On all my 3 audio/video systems I have Surgex SX-1115 (rack mount) strips. The Surgex units repeatedly cut power to the components due
to the huge range of fluctuations.
Once I figured out what was happening I called PG&E (our statewide, convicted felonious power crooks) and too their credit they had a
guy with a bucket truck at my house within a couple of hours at 11:00pm, on a Sunday. Power in my neighborhood is above ground. He verified the 150 Vac before the meter (this part is important) and went up the pole and redid all three legs of my power drop. When he was done he said the neutral was totally corroded so we redid all three legs. He also said that without some form of over/under protection, which I had with the SX-1115, at least my new 65" TV would have eventually have "gone up in smoke".
In fact he said he sees that not infrequently and strips with MOVs would not have done anything.

Although it sounds as though your wiring is going to be new and dedicated you are astute to still consider reliable protection.
So while my tale has nothing to do with surges it does directly relate to some form of protection.
My take: Get non-MOV protection with Over/Under protection. Done.

 

[Bugal1998]

Your question: "Is this money well spent to prevent problems over the long-run, or over-kill?"
Since it appears you have the resources I would say it's money well spent.

Why I feel this way:
You are staying away from MOV based protection which as a limited/unpredictable lifespan along with the additional downside of the potential for catastrophicfailu re.
You are not expecting unrealistic "sound quality" improvements.
You seem to understand that practically nothing can completely protect against lighting strikes.
You seen to understand that most "surges" come from other devices (usually motors) within the house.

Now about me.
Some time ago I had a situation where I was intermittently getting between 90 to 150 Vac in outlets all over the house.
On all my 3 audio/video systems I have Surgex SX-1115 (rack mount) strips. The Surgex units repeatedly cut power to the components due
to the huge range of fluctuations.
Once I figured out what was happening I called PG&E (our statewide, convicted felonious power crooks) and too their credit they had a
guy with a bucket truck at my house within a couple of hours at 11:00pm, on a Sunday. Power in my neighborhood is above ground. He verified the 150 Vac before the meter (this part is important) and went up the pole and redid all three legs of my power drop. When he was done he said the neutral was totally corroded so we redid all three legs. He also said that without some form of over/under protection, which I had with the SX-1115, at least my new 65" TV would have eventually have "gone up in smoke".
In fact he said he sees that not infrequently and strips with MOVs would not have done anything.

Although it sounds as though your wiring is going to be new and dedicated you are astute to still consider reliable protection.
So while my tale has nothing to do with surges it does directly relate to some form of protection.
My take: Get non-MOV protection with Over/Under protection. Done.

Thank you for sharing your perspective! Your story is yet another scenario I hadn't thought of, and it reminded me of a recent experience in a vacation rental. Every time the mini-split would engage the compressor for heat, the lights would dim greatly and flicker rythmically; took us a few minutes to figure it out. And then we got a call from the owner because apparently it was causing the same behavior at the other two homes sharing the transformer. Yikes.

No idea if it caused--or would have caused-- any equipment failures in the impacted homes, but it has me thinking.

 

[Putter]

You should probably mention your country and/or whether there are frequent problems with the electricity net. Where I live the last time there was any problem worth mentioning (a powercut of 30 minutes) is years ago. For the rest everything looks stable enough (also shape and frequency, if that even matters). As such, doesn't look like there's much to protect against for me. But that's not quite the case everywhere. On the other hand I've also read power strips which turn everything on/off at once are problematic, though I've personally never experienced problems with that. And I use those a lot.

I had a recent experience that does seem to be related to a power strip multiple switch on. MyDenon AVR-1610 emitted the magic smoke on powering up and would not go out of standby. I also had a sub and tuner on the power strip. My suspicion is that since the AV receiver powered straight on that it blew the transformer. The good news is that I purchased it second hand minus a power cord for $60 maybe 10 years ago so it didn't really owe me anything and I have other amps available although I do miss Dynamic Eq. Its replacement a Yamaha RX-396, the receiver version of the AX-396 that impressed Amir, does have a variable loudness control. Oh, and it's not on the power strip.

 

[Holmz]

… too their credit they had a guy with a bucket truck at my house within a couple of hours at 11:00pm, on a Sunday. Power in my neighborhood is above ground. He verified the 150 Vac before the meter (this part is important) and went up the pole and redid all three legs of my power drop. When he was done he said the neutral was totally corroded so we redid all three legs.
…

^+^

My UPS was beeping a year ago, or maybe 2.
Disgusted at the batteries in it… (4 of them) I replaced them yet again.

It was still beeping after that, and I noticed that the lights would brown out as well.

I mentioned it to my Sparky work mate… and Derek said, “It’ll be the neutral leg mate…, or a loose connection”
He came by (from around the corner) and measures current on the ground. And said, “Mate, call the power company.”

And… ye verily… there was a corroded neutral at the underground service in the yard across the street where 6 houses were wired in.

 

[Chrise36]

For the low power electronics i suggest an automatic voltage regulator and a ups if you have often power cuts.