Inherited record players that won't play

[Jayna]

Hello!
I have inherited some stereo equipment that includes two record players and a stereo system tower with a record player. A Technics sl-d202, an Onkyo CP1010A, and a Panasonic SGD-26 Stereo Music System. Both the Onkyo and the Technics will play through the Panasonic but the sound needs to be cranked to the highest setting and even then the sound is super low. I have started doing some research and I think I need a "phono pre-amp"? So then I started doing some research on those and ... there are a lot of choices and some of them are pricey just to be able to find out if the lack of a pre-amp is actually the problem. I have ZERO experience with record players beyond the basics of "put the record on the round thingy with the pokey thingy through the middle and then push the button to make the arm thingy play the music". So I have a bit of a hill to climb to get me to where I need to be. Because the Panasonic tower is the only other equipment I currently have to play the records, I attached them to the back of the Panasonic in the "CD" option to play through the speakers. The Panasonic record player does not have a needle at this time so I can't test it until I get a needle (if it is even worth attempting to fix it??). I know the speakers are hooked up correctly because the radio and tape player all work just fine at normal volume on the Panasonic. I feel that the record players should play through the Panasonic system at normal volume and they do not. Because they do not play through the Panasonic tower at the correct volume, I am guessing that the Panasonic record player has the "pre-amp" in the needle arm instead of somewhere in the system itself? And that the Technics and Onkyo do not have pre-amps in the needle arm? OR perhaps, the CD option does not use a pre-amp because CD players do not need them... Anway, this is what I got from some of the research I was doing... if this is incorrect please correct me! I spent quite a bit of time attempting to set this stuff up and methodically went through attaching the red and white jacks to the different options on the back of the Panasonic and going through all the button options on the front, ie, TV/VCR, CD, TAPE, PHONO, AND TUNER in an attempt to see if any of them would work to play the records and only the "CD" option works but with significantly reduced volume. Would a phono pre-amp solve this problem? Could something be wrong with the Panasonic? Is it operator error? Do I need some other kind of equipment to be able to use the record players instead of trying to play them through the Panasonic system? Is the Panasonic record player worth getting the needle replaced if I can even find one? Thank you for any help and advice

 

[livinon2wheels]

borrow a phono preamp from someone ( or get one from amazon ) and test it. Then you'll know. If you dont like the sound you are getting you can return the preamp inside 30 days so it costs little more than your time to try it out.

 

[Jayna]

borrow a phono preamp from someone ( or get one from amazon ) and test it. Then you'll know. If you dont like the sound you are getting you can return the preamp inside 30 days so it costs little more than your time to try it out.

Thank you, I was considering this option but wanted to try asking first before I went through ordering.

 

[livinon2wheels]

You didn't identify the model number of your amplifier but if we had that we might be able to determine for sure that all the inputs on the amp are line level inputs. Back in the day, some less expensive units had a phono input that was labeled phono but was actually a line level input intended for a ceramic or crystal cartridge used in inexpensive players. Here is an explanation from AI that will help:
A phono signal from a Moving Magnet (MM) cartridge will generally range from 3-6 mV, while those from a Moving Coil (MC) cartridge typically range from 0.2-1.5 mV. Line-level signals, on the other hand, are standardized around 0.32 volts (320 mV). This is probably why you have so little output level. Its likely a moving magnet cartridge and you have it hooked up to a line level input. A phono preamp will fix that problem for you.

 

[DVDdoug]

Yes, you need a phono preamp. In the analog days it was built-into the receiver and there was a special phono input. These days not all AVRs & receivers have them.

Some newer turntables have a preamp built-in but the "high end" ones are like the old days and they don't come with a cartridge or preamp.

I don't recommend getting too crazy with the preamp, unless you later really get "into vinyl". Records themselves have limitations and they will never sound as good as digital* no matter how much you sped.

A normal line-level signal from a CD/DVD player or your TV is about 100 times higher than the output from a phono cartridge.

The preamp does another thing besides amplify... Records are cut with RIAA Equalization which boosts the highs (drastically) and cuts the bass (drastically). The preamp applies complementary RIAA playback EQ to return the signal to normal.

The Panasonic record player does not have a needle at this time so I can't test it until I get a needle (if it is even worth attempting to fix it??)

It's usually just as economical to replace the whole cartridge, but see below.

I am guessing that the Panasonic record player has the "pre-amp" in the needle arm instead of somewhere in the system itself?

There are a couple of possibilities -
Yes, if the turntable is built-in it probably wouldn't have an external phono preamp connection.

Or some "cheap record players" came with a ceramic cartridge which has higher output so they didn't need a preamp, but they need a high-impedance input so they aren't compatible with any "modern" inputs. They usually had a flip-over stylus like this picture. That's the clue. The replacement styluses were cheap and IIRC, in the 1970s you could get one from Radio Shack for $2.99 or something like that but it would probably hard to find one now. Ceramic and magnetic cartridges are not interchangeable.


* Vinyl is technically inferior to digital, but dome people like it and to them it can be "better".


P.S.
Another clue about a ceramic cartridge - I there's a little U-shaped rubber piece that the stylus shaft fits into, and it makes a loud sound through the speakers when you tap it with your finger, it's a ceramic cartridge.

 

[Mart68]

Your Panasonic unit has an internal phono pre-amp for its built-in record deck so if you fit a new stylus to it and select 'Phono' on the display you should then be able to play your records with the correct volume and EQ - assuming that deck is working. If it's not been used in a long time it may need a new belt.

To use your other turntables you'll need to get a separate phono stage and plug that in to the 'line in' input on the Panasonic.

EDIT - check it has one first! Or you may find you cannot connect an external unit to the Panasonic

 

[JSmith]

Panasonic SGD-26 Stereo Music System

Hey, welcome to ASR.

That is an old compact stereo system where the turntable is built in;

There is no phono input on this device, so I assume you're using CD or TV/VCR RCA inputs;

The phono signal is low in level, so requires a pre-amp and RIAA eq applied.

Any integrated amp with a phono input will do the job... or just get a cheapish phono pre-amp like;

Fosi Audio Box X5 Phono Preamp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Fosi Audio Box X5 stereo Phono stage. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $109.99. Company manages to bring a touch of class in a category that is universally utilitarian with those rounded corners and orange power button. Flexibility...

www.audiosciencereview.com

... find one?

STYLUS FOR PANASONIC EPS41 EPS41STSD TOSHIBA N21D N60C N61C EPS41ST 1923 | eBay

NATIONAL PANASONIC.

www.ebay.com

JSmith

 

[Jayna]

Hey, welcome to ASR.

That is an old compact stereo system where the turntable is built in;

View attachment 450627

There is no phono input on this device, so I assume you're using CD or TV/VCR RCA inputs;

View attachment 450626

The phono signal is low in level, so requires a pre-amp and RIAA eq applied.

Any integrated amp with a phono input will do the job... or just get a cheapish phono pre-amp like;

Fosi Audio Box X5 Phono Preamp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Fosi Audio Box X5 stereo Phono stage. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $109.99. Company manages to bring a touch of class in a category that is universally utilitarian with those rounded corners and orange power button. Flexibility...

www.audiosciencereview.com

View attachment 450628

STYLUS FOR PANASONIC EPS41 EPS41STSD TOSHIBA N21D N60C N61C EPS41ST 1923 | eBay

NATIONAL PANASONIC.

www.ebay.com

JSmith

Thank you! This is exactly like the one I have except yours is cleaner, lol. I can get the other record players to work through the CD ports. I have ordered a cheap pre-amp to try it out but I will probably want to upgrade to something in the near future so I will try your recommendations and see what happens! Any recommendations on a smaller system that I could use just to play the record players and not use the whole Panasonic tower? and what is RIAA eq?

 

[JeffS7444]

I think I see what the problem is: Your Panasonic is fitted with a piezo (aka "ceramic") phono cartridge which didn't need a phono preamp or RIAA equalization. However, both your Technics and Onkyo are almost certainly fitted with moving magnet type phono cartridges. This is a Good Thing, allowing for better sound with reduced tracking force. But MM cartridges need some additional amplification, plus the aforementioned RIAA equalization, neither of which are built into the Panasonic.

But something like this ought to do the trick.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCZ6Z8DC

 

[Jayna]

Your Panasonic unit has an internal phono pre-amp for its built-in record deck so if you fit a new stylus to it and select 'Phono' on the display you should then be able to play your records with the correct volume and EQ - assuming that deck is working. If it's not been used in a long time it may need a new belt.

To use your other turntables you'll need to get a separate phono stage and plug that in to the 'line in' input on the Panasonic.

EDIT - check it has one first! Or you may find you cannot connect an external unit to the Panasonic

Thank you, It seems I can add external equipment through various ports on the back such as the CD port so I will test it as soon as the pre-amp arrives. Can't wait to try it out!

 

[Jayna]

I think I see what the problem is: Your Panasonic is fitted with a piezo (aka "ceramic") phono cartridge which didn't need a phono preamp or RIAA equalization. However, both your Technics and Onkyo are almost certainly fitted with moving magnet type phono cartridges. This is a Good Thing, allowing for better sound with reduced tracking force. But MM cartridges need some additional amplification, plus the aforementioned RIAA equalization, neither of which are built into the Panasonic.

But something like this ought to do the trick.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCZ6Z8DC

Thank you! I have purchased something similar and am eagerly awaiting its arrival. Some time today!

 

[Jayna]

UPDATE:
I have successfully installed the phono pre-amp!! It works for both record players and I have ordered a new needle for the built in record player to test it. I want to thank all of you for your help and advice to get me through this. Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You! You are all SO AWESOME!