Information Could Be the Fifth State of Matter

[JSmith]

I found this extremely interesting, discuss;

Information Could Be the 5th State of Matter, Proving We Live in a Simulation

If true, this idea could even help us understand all of the dark matter in our universe.

www.popularmechanics.com

Vopson proposes that a positron-electron annihilation should produce energy equivalent to the masses of the two particles. It should also produce an extra dash of energy: two infrared, low-energy photons of a specific wavelength (predicted to be about 50 microns), as a direct result of erasing the information content of the particles. Photons are particles of electromagnetic radiation.

JSmith

 

[Tks]

I had a whole post written out about the problems some of the basis of this proposal poses. But as I dug into the original research the author bases his ideas on, and even prior to that, the the actual definition of information assumed here. It's just beyond my head. Only thing I know for sure is there seems to be somewhat concerning MIA of things like neutrinos, and some unaccounted for assumptions about anti-particle behavior and information theory perhaps. And also the pointless headliner about "being in a simulation" (not so much due to the notion, but because that word comes loaded with lots of imagery that then spirals down into God of Gaps fallacies and such if you're ever able to get past the semantic phase)

 

[dc655321]

I had a whole post written out about the problems some of the basis of this proposal poses. But as I dug into the original research the author bases his ideas on, and even prior to that, the the actual definition of information assumed here. It's just beyond my head. Only thing I know for sure is there seems to be somewhat concerning MIA of things like neutrinos, and some unaccounted for assumptions about anti-particle behavior and information theory perhaps. And also the pointless headliner about "being in a simulation" (not so much due to the notion, but because that word comes loaded with lots of imagery that then spirals down into God of Gaps fallacies and such if you're ever able to get past the semantic phase)

Did you intend for both of your links to point at the same paper?

 

[JSmith]

the pointless headliner about "being in a simulation"

Yes that is the click-bait part for sure and best to be ignored, however I found this aspect of the concept most intriguing;

Scientists believe that the observable matter in the universe has a specific information content. For example, typical atoms—containing protons, electrons, and neutrons—hold not only the combined masses of these subatomic particles, but also the minuscule masses of the information they require to interact with each other and the rest of the universe. This type of information could be considered the “DNA” of the particles, according to Vopson’s paper.

When combined, the two “information conjectures” make specific predictions about the mass of information in the universe. For example, scientists have estimated that a single particle contains 1.509 bits of information, representing characteristics like the mass, charge, and spin of the particle.

This may indicate that although the universe is chaotic, everything down to the smallest particle has information, direction, purpose. Further investigation may lead to a clearer understanding of the life, the universe and everything.


JSmith

 

[dpturner]

it's all tied up entropy and the second law of thermodynamics. treating information this way also lead to the concept of Hawking radiation. but it's well over my head...

 

[LeftCoastTim]

None of the this stuff can be observed or noticed by human perception. It's highly sensitive instruments all the way down.

Yet audiophiles perceive differences that instruments cannot detect. They must truly be gods.

 

[RayDunzl]

If information has mass how can it be transmitted at the speed of light?

 

[JSmith]

If information has mass how can it be transmitted at the speed of light?

Electrons have mass and can travel fairly close to the speed of light. The mass discussed here is magnitudes smaller, however I see your point.

Further, photons are discussed which are massless particles, in this case in the form of infrared.

I wonder further how quantum entanglement occurs and relates to information.


JSmith

 

[PierreV]

If information has mass how can it be transmitted at the speed of light?

As energy. What he proposes is some mass/energy/information equivalence.
All of this flies above our poor small heads of course, but at least he proposes a practical test.
The photon at rest has no mass (or at least a mass below 10e-54 grams I think). The photon in movement has some 'mass' equivalence, depending on the theoretical framework you are in, since it has energy and energy is equivalent to mass.

 

[Snarfie]

Got the impression scientist are looking for the same outcome/results/holy grail white different studies/experiments like finding the Axion particle suppose to be a closed or open string (also known as string or Hawing radiation peferable measured on the event horion of a massive blackhole) which could prove string theory an could prove we live in a holograhic univers and or massive HDD. LHD an Fermilab are searching for the Axion particle. Recently in space Chandra infrared space telescoop is also searching for this exotic particle. https://www.space.com/astronomers-test-string-theory-chandra-x-ray-telescope.html

New Webb space telescoop could be part of this search for the Axion particle. Exiting times for sceince.

 

[hex168]

Yes that is the click-bait part for sure and best to be ignored, however I found this aspect of the concept most intriguing;

This may indicate that although the universe is chaotic, everything down to the smallest particle has information, direction, purpose. Further investigation may lead to a clearer understanding of the life, the universe and everything.


JSmith

The other half of the headline has problems too. I can't access the original article, but if they mean solid, liquid, gas, plasma, "states of matter" do not apply at the subatomic level.

Nonetheless the topic is fascinating, and thank you for bringing it up.

 

[voodooless]

I don’t see how that experiment would prove that information has mass?

I also wonder what Heisenberg has to say about this?

I also don’t see the 5th state of matter: Solids, liquids, gases and plasma… and information? Come on.. sensation much?

 

[JSmith]

Is information the fifth state of matter? Physicist says there's one way to find out

If true, this could have major implications for physics.

www.zmescience.com

“The main idea of the study is that information erasure can be achieved when matter particles annihilate their corresponding antimatter particles. This process essentially erases a matter particle from existence. The annihilation process converts all the [remaining] mass of the annihilating particles into energy, typically gamma photons. However, if the particles do contain information, then this also needs to be conserved upon annihilation, producing some lower-energy photons. In the present study, I predicted the exact energy of the infrared red photons resulting from this information erasure, and I gave a detailed protocol for the experimental testing involving the electron-positron annihilation process,” Vopson told ZME Science.

Claude E. Shannon: Founder of Information Theory

With the fundamental new discipline of quantum information science now under construction, it's a good time to look back at an extraordinary scientist who single-handedly launched classical information theory

www.scientificamerican.com

Do Our Questions Create the World?

Quantum theorist John Wheeler’s “it from bit” hypothesis anticipated ongoing speculation that consciousness is fundamental to reality

blogs.scientificamerican.com

Wheeler became more deeply convinced of the importance of information after conceiving a modified version of the famous two-slit experiment, which demonstrates the schizophrenic nature of quantum phenomena. When electrons are aimed at a barrier containing two slits, the electrons act like waves; they go through both slits at once and form what is called an interference pattern, created by the overlapping of the waves, when they strike a detector on the far side of the barrier. If the physicist closes off one slit at a time, however, the electrons pass through the open slit like simple particles and the interference pattern disappears.

JSmith

 

[voodooless]

That makes it a lot clearer, thanks! I’m not sure though why information needs to be conserved? Is this a new fundamental law?

 

[JSmith]

I’m not sure though why information needs to be conserved?

Matter having mass (stored energy) can be converted to another form of energy (adhering to the law of conservation of energy), so I gather if a system of matter contains information and information is converted to energy (proposed) along with the annihilated matter, then there must be conservation of information... I think. This is deep thought stuff... isn't it?


JSmith