informal survey: how many Atmos users adhere to Dolby height speaker layout and performance recommendations?

[Soundmixer]

The guidelines show three layouts for 7.1.6 Atmos, and the one with all Top Speakers is listed LAST, and nowhere mentioned as preferred.

Those same guidelines mention overhead 29 times and ceiling 6 times. Front and rear wall for Atmos speakers is mentioned ZERO times. If you place your speakers on the front and rear walls as you suggest, it will place them too far from the listener to achieve the required vertical angle. Dolby specifies that overhead speakers should ideally be between 30 and 55 degrees (for Front Heights) and 125 to 150 degrees (for Rear Heights) relative to your seated position. If you place them on the front and rear wall, the sound will appear to be coming from "high in front of you" rather than "above you." That is a fact. As I said before, the panner works for overhead speakers; it does support front and rear wall speakers. You can place your speakers wherever you want (there is no speaker setup police), it is your speakers, your room, and your money to waste.

Nor does it mean they are "not Atmos".

If it is not overhead, it is not Atmos. The whole purpose of Atmos is to include overhead speakers over the typical 7.1 or ITU-775 5.1 setup.

Look, all I am saying is that 'Atmos' is a definition with a width that is wider than "only the best and anything less is not Atmos". I think you are having trouble in conceding a small, simple point that I raise (with reference to Dolby's own guidelines), and that should be easy to concede.

Here is what you are missing. Dolby is clear as hell about where they want speakers placed for Atmos. It is clear as a bell they want them OVERHEAD, not on the front wall or rear wall. As I stated earlier, they mention overhead 29 times and ceiling 6 times in their guidelines for speaker setup, but they don't mention the front or rear wall at all. In editing rooms that support Atmos, the speakers are overhead. On the dubbing stage, where Atmos content is mixed, the speakers are overhead. In movie theaters that support Atmos content, the speakers are overhead. No place in the creation and mixing chain will you find Atmos speakers on the front and rear walls. NOWHERE!

I immediately concede that matching the speaker arrangements of certified Atmos mixing studios is the best idea of all. No problem.

Thank you...and with that, your entire argument becomes a waste of time.

 

[Soundmixer]

Used a "one-for-all-setup" (Auro3D placement) for my 5.2.4-system, dialed in with DiracART to my liking. It's said to have a more coherent "sound bubble" than typical Dolby Atmos setups due to a lower elevation angle. Height speakers are wallmounted.

Unfortunately, Auro3D placement is incompatible with Atmos, so you cannot compare the two. You also cannot make a claim of a better sound bubble than an Atmos setup without a proper comparison. "It is said" is not a proper comparison.

Lastly, the Auro3D placement is not a one-for-all setup. Your speaker count would have to be much higher than 5.2.4, because you would need overhead speakers to make it so. Without overheads, you just have an Auro3D setup that can playback Atmos tracks (improperly of course) and nothing more than that.

 

[Tre2023]

Like a dog with bone…

 

[napfkuchen]

Unfortunately, Auro3D placement is incompatible with Atmos, so you cannot compare the two. You also cannot make a claim of a better sound bubble than an Atmos setup without a proper comparison. "It is said" is not a proper comparison.

Lastly, the Auro3D placement is not a one-for-all setup.

Of course, it is, because there is only this one surround setup for me that I can use everyday.

Your speaker count would have to be much higher than 5.2.4, because you would need overhead speakers to make it so.

When objects fly from front to back or vice versa above me, it sounds very convincing to me, for example in "Midway" or the Atmos-trailers. Certainly better than in the cinemas in my area.

Without overheads, you just have an Auro3D setup that can playback Atmos tracks (improperly of course) and nothing more than that.

Improperly? OMG stop babbling the same bs over and over again. Sound reproduction depends on so many variables, from recording to production, that there simply isn't a perfect, authentic, proper sound. First of all, sound is often neglected in film productions when it comes to recording. It's simply very difficult to consistently place the microphones "correctly." Every recording studio is different, and so are sound engineers. Time budget for a studio production varies greatly, and the sound engineer always brings own personal preferences to the final product. Finally, the possibilities for consumers in terms of room, equipment and personal hearing capability vary greatly...
I've been considering installing an additional voice of god speaker in the ceiling and ceiling-mounted speakers. However, the installation isn't straightforward. Using "normal" ceiling-mounted speakers, as is common in most recording studios, is out of the question for me due to my aesthetic preferences. There are dedicated in-ceiling speakers as an alternative but likely with disadvantages in directionality and general performance (Erin's Audio Corner did a comparison of several in-wall speakers with a shockingly poor price/performance ratio). From a purely practical standpoint, this was therefore not an option – just as it was for the majority of users in this forum. The question then becomes: what is the value of a standard whose implementation is not suitable even for most enthusiasts? Wall mounting offers a wider selection of speakers (compatible with living spaces), and installation/replacement of the speakers is also easier.
Perhaps you should accept the reality that more than 10 % of the population does (sadly) not have their own George Lucas approved home theater.

 

[-Matt-]

Those same guidelines mention overhead 29 times and ceiling 6 times. Front and rear wall for Atmos speakers is mentioned ZERO times.

That is because the term OVERHEAD includes both ceiling and wall mounted height speakers.

Thank you...and with that, your entire argument becomes a waste of time.

^This applies to you.

 

[Oddball]

I would actually need more properly mastered Atmos content to enjoy on my so inadequate on wall Atmos setup. While obviously mixer can't invent the content "above" if it is just ambiance, something should be there. There is a whole thread on AVS Forum that based on the audio analysis of various movies basically concludes that overall there is very little activity in the Atmos layer.

As far as in-ceiling speakers and their angles, that should also depend on the dispersion characteristics of the speakers.

I think we should continue enjoying our Atmos setups and even the most basic ones are IMO better than not having Atmos at all.

 

[DoctorRobert]

I have a 5.1.2 setup with the 'old style' height speakers at the top of my projection screen. Originally, I put them there to maken use of the 'dialogue lift' function of my previous Yamaha AVR. With my Denon x2800, I use them for Atmos purposes, but the location is less then optimal. The difference between an Atmos and a non-Atmos sound track is not that obvious but it works.

 

[antcollinet]

Thank you...and with that, your entire argument becomes a waste of time.

Jeez - lighten the hell up ffs.

 

[Newman]

I know, right? I was trying to be reasonable and grant him a concession, and he pounces on it and declares himself the winner and me a time-waster.

 

[Oddball]

I know, right? I was trying to be reasonable and grant him a concession, and he pounces on it and declares himself the winner and me a time-waster.

I stand with you guys. It's rarely seen on ASR to what extent one wants to pursue dominance and have the last word.

 

[Soundmixer]

I know, right? I was trying to be reasonable and grant him a concession, and he pounces on it and declares himself the winner and me a time-waster.

I didn't make a comment that said I won anything. YOU said that. There was no concession granted here. You simply acknowledged what I had been saying throughout the entire conversation, and THAT made it a waste of time.

 

[Soundmixer]

That is because the term OVERHEAD includes both ceiling and wall mounted height speakers.

No it does not. Since when is high on the front wall overhead? Jeeze, you are not even good at making stuff up!

^This applies to you.

I am hurt......

 

[Soundmixer]

Improperly? OMG stop babbling the same bs over and over again. Sound reproduction depends on so many variables, from recording to production, that there simply isn't a perfect, authentic, proper sound. First of all, sound is often neglected in film productions when it comes to recording. It's simply very difficult to consistently place the microphones "correctly." Every recording studio is different, and so are sound engineers. Time budget for a studio production varies greatly, and the sound engineer always brings own personal preferences to the final product. Finally, the possibilities for consumers in terms of room, equipment and personal hearing capability vary greatly...

LOLOLOLOL!!! Speaking of babbling. The recording of effects, dialogue, and music is not in question here. What this topic is about is sticking with Dolby's guidelines for Atmos speaker placement. The recording side plays no role in that.

"The question then becomes: what is the value of a standard whose implementation is not suitable even for most enthusiasts?"

Everything is not for everyone...right?

" Wall mounting offers a wider selection of speakers (compatible with living spaces), and installation/replacement of the speakers is also easier."

I am pretty sure Dolby did not take into account what is easier for you to install or what is compatible with your space. Their guidelines focus on how to get the proper spatial outcome from the mix created in the studio. If your room cannot support that standard, then you can compromise to your heart's desire (as you have apparently done). Nobody is saying you can't. However, you need to understand that compromise will potentially distort the spatial reproduction that the engineer carefully crafted. You obviously don't care about that, and that is ok.

"Perhaps you should accept the reality that more than 10 % of the population does (sadly) not have their own George Lucas approved home theater."

George Lucas never had a certification program; his company did. That has nothing to do with Atmos. I wouldn't be bothered one bit that only 10% (a number I know you pulled from thin air) can nail the guidelines. It is what it is.

 

[Newman]

Someone's having a problem seeing real shades of grey.

 

[Talisman]

 

[Fslag]

There are far too many absolutist "my way or the highway" folk on this forum.

Not everyone has the same wants, needs, abilities or facilities.

Listening to music should be a broad church. The ways in which we listen to it, equally so.

This is not the forum or place for such stupid attitude.

 

[-Matt-]

Those same guidelines mention overhead 29 times and ceiling 6 times. Front and rear wall for Atmos speakers is mentioned ZERO times.

That is because the term OVERHEAD includes both ceiling and wall mounted height speakers.

No it does not. Since when is high on the front wall overhead? Jeeze, you are not even good at making stuff up!

In this context overhead means positioned at a height that is above seated head height. It therefore includes front and rear heights.

 

[antcollinet]

This is not the forum or place for such stupid attitude.

Really? Please do explain the myriad ways in which my attitude is stupid. I mean you've been here all of what? Five minutes? You should have it down pat by now.

 

[Soundmixer]

View attachment 529154

In this context overhead means positioned at a height that is above seated head height. It therefore includes front and rear heights.

Nope, my friend. When Dolby means overhead, they mean overhead, not front and rear wall height speakers. Your example does not work well with the Atmos software in the mixing and mastering suite. It is a compromise set up, and will produce a compromised result. I don't know of an AVR or processor that allows you to use front and rear wall heights and overheads simultaneously.

Below is the PRIMARY overhead setup that works perfectly with the panner, and what you will find in 7.1.6 mixing studios.

No mixing studio uses your example. If the mixing studio doesn't use it, neither should you. I will be glad to explain to you why the alternative speaker setups don't work, including the Auro speaker setup if you like.