informal survey: how many Atmos users adhere to Dolby height speaker layout and performance recommendations?

[krabapple]

I took the question to be referring to movies rather than music based on the following - though I suppose that could still be music.

I'll note here for context, my primary interest/use case in all this, is and will be, music-only Atmos releases,not movies. (Video soundtracks seem to be Dolby's primary use case in its guidelines -- as it has been for surround sound generally since 'home theater' became a thing around the turn of the millennium)

 

[Oddball]

We should all know how to read words and diagrams from Dolby, so this whole thread just goes about how to do it "correctly". I personally find that odd, and in my case almost insulting.

And also focused by OP's admission to music, without any actual Atmos experience.

I was advised by OP to take my thoughts to my own thread - but the fact remains that we all contribute to ASR, not to individuals crafting their threads to their own liking - especially if they might not actually have an idea about the practical implications.

So in few words. One should follow the Dolby guidelines for Atmos is possible. What is achievable in a given space is a different matter. In ceiling speakers of higher quality are (very) expensive and things can still go wrong in implementation as angles could be breached so that the end result is not optimal. While in ceiling solution is superior, people often go for the on-wall heights as their angles can be controlled (with appropriate brackets) and one can get a much better and cheaper bookshelf speaker in that class.

There are no studies or comparison how a bad in ceiling Atmos compares to a great on wall Atmos.

Object placing is another consideration. Object might actually not come from above, but just from the height. Nothing to do with Dolby spec, just with the mix. If object comes from above, in-ceiling would be more appropriate way to reproduce it but if it comes at height per the mix, then heights will take the crown.

Processors like Trinnov can actually take things further so you can have a setup in three layers - beds, heights and tops. Any Atmos purist should definitively pursue this road as no other road leads to the balance @krabapple

Knowing so little about the Atmos is what I take from this thread. But that is a new format for most - even the most senior members.

 

[Tre2023]

Well, I use a 5.1(two subs) speaker configuration and use the Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization feature. I have rope, kindling and lighter fluid on hand but will require the help of others to be tied to the stake.

 

[krabapple]

We should all know how to read words and diagrams from Dolby, so this whole thread just goes about how to do it "correctly". I personally find that odd, and in my case almost insulting.

Gosh, you're still here? I personally find that odd, though not insulting. A pity you've said nothing quite new.

So I'll repeat myself too:

• On-ceiling (as opposed to on-wall or in-ceiling) speakers can be aimed and well-approximate Dolby Atmos top speaker guidelines
• Dolby mix suite setup guidelines treat on-wall 'height' speakers like yours as a rarity, and never without 'top' speakers. Maybe they have a reason? Perhaps Atmos objects mixed specifically with 'heights' in mind, versus tops, are likely to be rare?
• Neither of those things means the height speakers alone won't 'work'. They can produce 'immersive' output (vertical space/3D). How important their potential deviation from Atmos mix intent is, is something every user gets to decide.
• The listener lying prone on a bed is not the expected milieu in surround guidelines.
• Yet it is a given that rooms and personal circumstances often constrain conformance to 'by the book' configuration guidelines. Dolby's own guidelines acknowledge that reality without condeming it. This fact need not pre-empt discussion of guidelines or render it worthless.
• Other surround technologies have other guidelines, so accomodating all of them means compromise to some of them. This fact need not pre-empt discussion of guidelines or render it worthless.
• People here seem to know all this. Even people with 'no Atmos experience' (on a bed or otherwise).

 

[Tre2023]

I don’t believe anybody should lose any sleep over not strictly adhering to Dolby guidelines. If Dolby cared that much, there would be no accommodation at all for anybody using speakers NOT ceiling mounted and they certainly would not offer Height Virtualization for those like this schmuck with no actual height speakers.

 

[krabapple]

Atmos even has a headphone implementation.

Please, no hysteria about people 'losing sleep' over learning about and discussing guidelines and the degree to which people are matching them at home.

Whoever is going to 'lose sleep' over that, should leave the thread, as a mental health precaution.

 

[No_hair_left]

I have done all 3, so up-firing, heights with 4 above front/side speakers and with just 2 firing at the mlp in corners of the room and then on ceiling at 45/55/60 degrees.

After all of that my take away was on-ceiling sounded the most accurate when it came to having a 3d dome of sound with full panning front to ceiling to back and left to right.
Up-firing, why bother wasting the power for this, I have low 7.4ft ceilings that are flat and highly reflective ceiling, it just doesn't work.
Heights was a wall of sound front and back but was missing the overhead effects/cues completely. The .2 setup with 2 heights in the center of the room in the corner where wall meets ceiling firing down was pretty good actually with overhead effects but this only worked because I have a narrow 10.5ft room.

I get why heights might technically be more accurate when it comes to following whats on screen, MI-fallout helicopter chase is a good example of this but ceiling speakers just complete a more unbroken dome of sound in my opinion.

 

[Tre2023]

Atmos even has a headphone implementation.

Please, no hysteria about people 'losing sleep' over learning about and discussing guidelines and the degree to which people are matching them at home.

Whoever is going to 'lose sleep' over that, should leave the thread, as a mental health precaution.

I only get hysterical behind the wheel these days. Does anybody actually look at anything other than their phone when driving anymore?

I usually only lose sleep when I’ve eaten fried food too late in the evening and am up in the middle of the night gulping down water and baking soda.

I’ve noticed over the years in various threads and various forums that those who frequent them most already have mental health issues and are long past the precautionary point.

 

[krabapple]

I like to refer to audio nervosa (worrying that much over things that don't matter that much) though that isn't always quite right. Something like 'audio FOMO' could be closer.

I see I have >5000 posts across a decade, I'm probably in some DSM category for that.

 

[antcollinet]

but the fact remains that we all contribute to ASR,

Surely though it should be possible to do that without being unpleasant and confrontational. Otherwise it is not much of a contribution. Or at least, not one that I have much interest in reading.

 

[Oddball]

Surely though it should be possible to do that without being unpleasant and confrontational. Otherwise it is not much of a contribution. Or at least, not one that I have much interest in reading.

I am actually being as civil and compliant and obviously have not breached any rules except for having different opinions to other people. What @krabapple did when he called me out of the thread is actually a serious offence, that I just did let go off. We can discuss what is unpleasant and confrontational with the mods - if we don't resolve it here. But probably better to keep the adult talk going without that.

I do think that people should be open minded to this thread and obviously not moderating it. If your at @antcollinet managed to squeeze any improvements out of this thread that is just because your understanding of Atmost was not up to par. Glad if this thread helped.

 

[Talisman]

There's nothing wrong with not knowing something well, and if these discussions help you understand better, then they're good discussions. I'm also discovering things I didn't know about Atmos, even though I have a setup for it. I don't mind if someone explains something I might not know, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Soundmixer]

I took one of the examples from the Denon manual and got as close to that as i could. It looks somewhat like this - with some compromises.

View attachment 523692

This is not an Atmos setup. Denon got this one wrong.

 

[Soundmixer]

Interesting

None of the suggested layouts in the Denon 3800 manual include those.

I would pay less attention to Denon's manual and pay more attention to Dolby's recommendations. Dolby's system works best with their speaker guidelines, and straying from them will produce unintended results.

 

[Soundmixer]

"Heights aren't Atmos." Say what?

That is correct—ceiling-mounted IS Atmos.

 

[Soundmixer]

So this perhaps demonstrates some naivety on my part.

Atmos is object based sound. It is supposed to be able to distribute the sound amongst whatever speakers you have to attempt to place the sound as well as possible given those constraints.

This is correct. However, you have to stick with the speaker setups Dolby prescribes, or objects will not appear where they are supposed to.

I have assumed that the AVR then, knowing the desired "position" of the sound will then direct the sound to the speakers I have told it I have - in the positions I have - as needed to place the sound.

This is correct. But you can't place those speakers just anywhere.

If "heights are not Atmos" does that mean they are not used for atmos content. How does that work for an AVR such as my Denon 3800 which only offers speaker layout arrangements with hight, rather than top speakers?

As I said earlier, Denon got this wrong. Stick with the speaker setups Dolby says, and you can't go wrong. The heights will play Atmos content; however, the objects will be placed in places the mixer did not intend.

 

[Soundmixer]

I rarely make this comment but you are way off. I don't have enough time or energy to deal with you - but your are wrong in all aspects.

Commenting on a thread for Atmos where you have no experience at all is just bizarre. You should IMO stick to the areas where you have expertise.

He is not wrong. Front and rear heights are not a part of the Atmos spec. It is an Auro3D speaker setup, not Dolby Atmos.

 

[Newman]

...Front and rear heights are not a part of the Atmos spec. It is an Auro3D speaker setup, not Dolby Atmos.

Help me to understand what are 7 and 9 in the following illustration by Dolby in their installation guidelines?

cheers

 

[antcollinet]

I am actually being as civil and compliant

Not my take as an observer - but I'll leave it there.

 

[-Matt-]

Help me to understand what are 7 and 9 in the following illustration by Dolby in their installation guidelines?

View attachment 525589

cheers

Note that the diagram says the number of overhead speakers for this setup is 6, and that this includes two in-ceiling and four height speakers.

Those who doubt that front and rear heights are part of Atmos should re-read the 2018 document with the knowledge that the term overhead speakers includes heights.

On the other hand Dolby do slightly contradict themselves with the following regarding front heights...
"Most AVRs will support the use of front height (Dolby® Pro Logic® IIz) mounted speakers with Dolby Atmos playback; however, we recommend the use of either overhead or Dolby Atmos enabled speakers to create the most lifelike and enveloping audio experience."

To me this does indicate a preference for ceiling mounted speakers (if possible) but certainly doesn't prescribe against the use of heights as part of an Atmos setup.

To keep some perspective, Dolby also say...
"Dolby Atmos is a highly flexible solution, so minor variations from these recommendations are unlikely to materially detract from the immersive Dolby Atmos experience."


The other document referenced here is for monitoring studio setup and therefore isn't necessarily applicable for home use.