Info. on new Matrix Audio mini-i

[MatrixAudio]

@MatrixAudio:

thank you for your reply.

may i ask where one would make that setting please? please give some context to where this setting is so we may follow.

thank you very much. much appreciated.

additionally, there has been talk about what type of USB cable works and what type of USB cable would produce a conflict with the Mini iPro3.
specifically, USB-C to USB-C cable (capable of fast charging at 3 amps) would NOT work, i.e. producing a conflict. this is supposed to be due to an embedded chip inside the USB-C connector which is causing the conflict.

in that case, one might then be forced to use a USB-A to USB-A cable, and add a USB-A female to USB-C male adapter, similar to these:

USB-A to USB-A cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HSS9LXY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1AMUYYA3CT6HJ&psc=1

USB-A female to USB-C male adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CVX3516/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2FS8V7TJ34DI&psc=1

also: what might be the length of the USB-A to USB-A cable that one would be limited to? no more than 10 feet? no more than 15 feet?

thank you.

See Wolvebian's photo, with USB connection, you can find the audio device in " Roon Settings-Audio-Connected to Core", click the gear icon of device mini-i Pro 3, in the option MQA capatibility, select Decoder and Renderer.


For the USB cables, It's better to use a regular USB-C cable which does not support PD fast charging.

 

[Wolvebain]

@PortableMusic, it's a Roon only setting for the audio device setup that @MatrixAudio was referring to

FWIW: I have ordered a 3meter/10foot USB-C fast charging cable (as I needed one in any event), and I will test to see what happens with the Mini-i Pro3

 

[PortableMusic]

@MatrixAudio and @Wolvebain:

thank you kindly for your thoughts, ideas, comments.

fyi: at this point, i am NOT considering Roon. #1, first and foremost, the Pro3 is not yet supporting Roon! so how in the world am i able to do any of these settings? there is no Roon support for the Pro3 at this point!

re: USB-C cables -- usb c to usb c has a LIMIT of 36 inches or 1 meter. that's the specifications. your 3 meter usb-c cable is NOT as per the approved usb c protocol/standards.

furthermore, the whole issue with USB-C to USB-C cables NOT working properly as per the italian gentleman who posted that it wasn't working with his Pro3 (on shenzhen audio's reviews for the Pro3) was that EMBEDDED in the plug/connector of the USB C to USB C cable is a resistor or "chip" that regulates and controls FAST CHARGING. hence, the whole issue is that we do NOT want such a resistor/chip in the signal path because that italian gentleman discovered that to be the culprit of the problem!!

so...the workaround to ENSURE that the cable would NOT interfere with the Pro3 is:

get a usb a to usb a cable, preferably USB 2.0 ONLY (not USB 3.0 as 3.0 allows for fast charging as well!), and USB 2.0 A to A cable is fine because the amount of data transferred for high resolution audio is not that large an amount anyway, so USB 2.0 is sufficient!

plus, we have to buy a female USB-A to male USB-C adapter, preferably one that does NOT include any electronics embedded for "fast charging". once again, we want the simplest: meaning merely an adapter that changes the male USB-A (of the cable) to USB-C in order to be able to be plugged into the back of the Pro3.

furthermore, there are various USB-C cables that are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR CHARGING ONLY! USB-C allows for cables that are made SPECIFICALLY for charging, NOT for sync'ing or data transfer. hence, @Wolvebain , i'm sorry to disappoint your super well intentioned move of ordering the cable, but one must order a DATA cable. Ugh!

 

[Wolvebain]

No stress @PortableMusic .. I need a long charge cable for my Tab.

 

[PortableMusic]

Dear All:

i'm at my computer desk from 3 to 8 hours a day. i have my Meze Empyrean headphones with my Astell and Kern Kann Alpha right here at my computer desk, and i merely have to recharge it around once every 3 days approximately. my initial idea was that i may take this portable set up over to my sofa and lay down to relax during the day every so often, but alas, in the 4+ weeks i've had these two items, i've never once done it! only used it at my desktop.

i had intended to, originally, to ALSO buy a desktop DAC/headphone amp in addition to my DAP Kann Alpha, so that i may navigate with the large desktop monitor via Windows 10's Tidal app. fyi: i ONLY use Tidal for my music, no downloaded music files, strictly via Tidal Hifi and MQA when available.

so...i thought about buying the Matrix Audio Mini i-Pro 3. Well, it's complicated...

my Kann Alpha, despite being diminutive, has DUAL ES9068 dac chips inside, and a generous output to power my Meze Empyreans. Quite excellent!

however, i can't navigate via the large generously sized Windows 10 desktop PC's Tidal app, which is pleasant to navigate and browse and organize one's playlists, favorites, etc. It allows for greater discovery, greater exploration of music, etc.

buying the Matrix Mini i-Pro 3 means that i'll get the ES9038Q2M (2 channels) dac chip, which is NOT the ES9038 PRO dac chip (8 channels). Well, this means that i'm going from my Kann Alpha's DUAL ES9068 dac chips to the Matrix Mini i-Pro 3's single ES9038Q2M dac chip.

well, this isn't going to be much of an improvement, if not even a slight downgrade, which may or may not be even noticeable. the 9068 has baked in, ON CHIP full MQA unfolding (via hardware unfolding). the ES9038Q2M uses another chip, the XMOS 216, to do the MQA unfolding.

considering that this is not going to be much of a sonic benefit, if any whatsoever, it becomes an issue of merely being able to buy this Mini i-Pro 3 JUST FOR THE CONVENIENCE and benefit of being able to browse via the Tidal Windows 10 desktop app!

may i ask the good folks here, who are very experienced, if this is a lot of effort for very little actual benefit please? that means the purchase of the Mini i-Pro 3 is JUST for the convenience and pleasure to be able to browse and control via my desktop Windows 10 tower PC's Tidal app.

is it worth doing?

look forward to your comments. thank you in advance.

 

[GDK]

Dear All:

i'm at my computer desk from 3 to 8 hours a day. i have my Meze Empyrean headphones with my Astell and Kern Kann Alpha right here at my computer desk, and i merely have to recharge it around once every 3 days approximately. my initial idea was that i may take this portable set up over to my sofa and lay down to relax during the day every so often, but alas, in the 4+ weeks i've had these two items, i've never once done it! only used it at my desktop.

i had intended to, originally, to ALSO buy a desktop DAC/headphone amp in addition to my DAP Kann Alpha, so that i may navigate with the large desktop monitor via Windows 10's Tidal app. fyi: i ONLY use Tidal for my music, no downloaded music files, strictly via Tidal Hifi and MQA when available.

so...i thought about buying the Matrix Audio Mini i-Pro 3. Well, it's complicated...

my Kann Alpha, despite being diminutive, has DUAL ES9068 dac chips inside, and a generous output to power my Meze Empyreans. Quite excellent!

however, i can't navigate via the large generously sized Windows 10 desktop PC's Tidal app, which is pleasant to navigate and browse and organize one's playlists, favorites, etc. It allows for greater discovery, greater exploration of music, etc.

buying the Matrix Mini i-Pro 3 means that i'll get the ES9038Q2M (2 channels) dac chip, which is NOT the ES9038 PRO dac chip (8 channels). Well, this means that i'm going from my Kann Alpha's DUAL ES9068 dac chips to the Matrix Mini i-Pro 3's single ES9038Q2M dac chip.

well, this isn't going to be much of an improvement, if not even a slight downgrade, which may or may not be even noticeable. the 9068 has baked in, ON CHIP full MQA unfolding (via hardware unfolding). the ES9038Q2M uses another chip, the XMOS 216, to do the MQA unfolding.

considering that this is not going to be much of a sonic benefit, if any whatsoever, it becomes an issue of merely being able to buy this Mini i-Pro 3 JUST FOR THE CONVENIENCE and benefit of being able to browse via the Tidal Windows 10 desktop app!

may i ask the good folks here, who are very experienced, if this is a lot of effort for very little actual benefit please? that means the purchase of the Mini i-Pro 3 is JUST for the convenience and pleasure to be able to browse and control via my desktop Windows 10 tower PC's Tidal app.

is it worth doing?

look forward to your comments. thank you in advance.

If you are not going to stream Roon when this feature becomes available, there are better options for you.

 

[mdl]

Thanks, I have set the mini-i Pro3 as decoder and renderer.

I'm running roonserver on Linux , and is currently both server and output (as the mini-i Pro3 is not working as a roon endpoint via the network)

Roonserver Details are:

• OS: Centos8
• Hardware:
  • Board/CPU: ODroid H2
  • RAM: 2x 8GB RAM
  • Storage: 512GB M.2 NVMe SSD
  • Network: GbE to Fiber Media converter
  • PSU: 12V LinearPSU

I have just purchases a Matrix Element X USB PCIe card. And plan to use that on a Pi CM4 + IO Board as my Roon Bridge endpoint. -- More than just because the mini-i Pro3 is failing as a network Roon endpoint, but becuase I am just not enjoying the Mini-iPro3's sound...
If I'm going to need to use a Roon Bridge as the endpoint to USB, I may as well get a better DAC

what happened buddy? You seemed to enjoy the Mini Sound...you appear to have a fine ear. what happened?

 

[Wolvebain]

what happened buddy? You seemed to enjoy the Mini Sound...you appear to have a fine ear. what happened?

I really do enjoy the Mini-I Pro 3's sound. It's great for it's price, but only if it can do Roon via the network, with full MQA unfold.

It's definitely not a end-game or main-system DAC for me tho... which is why the Roon Endpoint capability via network is important for me (move it to the bedroom, or elsewhere and power-up).

I have had a chance to go through all the filters, but the sound is a tad "bright"... talking to others, including the person that now owns my previous AGD NOS11 DAC, the better term would be the sound has a bit of 'glare'. Feel like some of the subtle details are muted with this glare, making the sound stage more artificial with a focus on the upper-mids and highs, and not naturally open, where detail of the lowers and lower-mids are just as present.

By no means am I say that this is a bad DAC; in fact, it is a great DAC and All-in-one unit! But it's not Giant-Slaying
And by no means am I saying that an entry level Multibit Schiit or R2R11 AGD DAC is better. The Mini-I Pro3 is FAR better than those, imho.
But what I am saying, is that it not as good as my past DAC. And I full-well acknowledge that the price difference between the two are MAJOR, and this is all subjective to my taste and my musical pref. (Metal, for example, is a huge gap while less-complex, less-fast, and less-layered music, the gap is not that big)

As a side note, the Mini-I Pro3 sounds it's best, imo, when running from really clean power...

 

[mdl]

I really do enjoy the Mini-I Pro 3's sound. It's great for it's price, but only if it can do Roon via the network, with full MQA unfold.

It's definitely not a end-game or main-system DAC for me tho... which is why the Roon Endpoint capability via network is important for me (move it to the bedroom, or elsewhere and power-up).

I have had a chance to go through all the filters, but the sound is a tad "bright"... talking to others, including the person that now owns my previous AGD NOS11 DAC, the better term would be the sound has a bit of 'glare'. Feel like some of the subtle details are muted with this glare, making the sound stage more artificial with a focus on the upper-mids and highs, and not naturally open, where detail of the lowers and lower-mids are just as present.

By no means am I say that this is a bad DAC; in fact, it is a great DAC and All-in-one unit! But it's not Giant-Slaying
And by no means am I saying that an entry level Multibit Schiit or R2R11 AGD DAC is better. The Mini-I Pro3 is FAR better than those, imho.
But what I am saying, is that it not as good as my past DAC. And I full-well acknowledge that the price difference between the two are MAJOR, and this is all subjective to my taste and my musical pref. (Metal, for example, is a huge gap while less-complex, less-fast, and less-layered music, the gap is not that big)

As a side note, the Mini-I Pro3 sounds it's best, imo, when running from really clean power...

Thank you ...your words of wisdom are truly appreciated! My experience is fairly limited ...my comparative terms are inadequate (FIIO M9, AQ dragonfly cobalt, an old low-res CA Sonata,Linn Classik cd). I can perceive a step up.More clarity, more definition, less confused lower range, more focus and image stability. In all honestly, if the tidal connect doesn't come, it might require a step up. It makes me want something like a Naim Nd5 XS 2 even by giving up mqa...I'll give it a few months. I'm enjoying it though ...ah...it might be a tad bright but mostly listen to acoustic jazz and I'm positively impressed with its non fatiguing capabilities. Wait and see hey

 

[PortableMusic]

@Wolvebain: I, too, appreciate your reply.

may i ask what might be a step up from this Mini i-Pro3 please? i do wish to have full MQA unfolding capabilities, and a current/latest generation dac chip (or chips) inside, rather than an older generation dac chip. some manufacturers continue to use dac chips from 5+ years ago, probably due to lower R&D costs to push out a new product, but for a consumer like me, i'd rather have the latest generation. DACs are somewhat akin to PCs: you buy a current, reasonably high end model, it'll last you a good long while. if one were to buy a lower end PC, or one that is already a couple years old, then it wouldn't last as long due to newer features like new ports, new card slot form factors (i.e. M.2 memory slots). of course, nowadays, the pace of PC development has slowed down a bit, unlike, say, 10+ years ago, when things changed so quickly!

i'm hoping for an even better DAC+headphone amp so i may connect it to my PC via USB, so i may navigate via my PC's large monitor for ease of use.

thank you in advance.

 

[mdl]

@Wolvebain: I, too, appreciate your reply.

may i ask what might be a step up from this Mini i-Pro3 please? i do wish to have full MQA unfolding capabilities, and a current/latest generation dac chip (or chips) inside, rather than an older generation dac chip. some manufacturers continue to use dac chips from 5+ years ago, probably due to lower R&D costs to push out a new product, but for a consumer like me, i'd rather have the latest generation. DACs are somewhat akin to PCs: you buy a current, reasonably high end model, it'll last you a good long while. if one were to buy a lower end PC, or one that is already a couple years old, then it wouldn't last as long due to newer features like new ports, new card slot form factors (i.e. M.2 memory slots). of course, nowadays, the pace of PC development has slowed down a bit, unlike, say, 10+ years ago, when things changed so quickly!

i'm hoping for an even better DAC+headphone amp so i may connect it to my PC via USB, so i may navigate via my PC's large monitor for ease of use.

thank you in advance.

I'm editing after reading back your post...
I was initially thinking of full streamer DACs.
Although if you're looking at pure mqa DAC of a certain quality the mytek appears to be a step up ...I forgot about simaudio too!!!

Original post
Hey buddy...I don't want to sound presumptuous! I can barely offer my thoughts as I'm no big audio expert...an afionado maybe

I'm thinking a mytek brookling bridge or the far more expensive Manhattan ii DAC which is also a streamer with added streamer card (but far more recent though)
Or in alternative...the lumin D2 or upper ones.
How about an auralic g series?

... But I wouldn't go blind and go listen before making a real step up.

There are houses like ps audio direct stream latrst that uses programmable chips which gets constantly upgraded and they less likely to fall into obsolescence...
Again just on top of my head!!)

 

[PortableMusic]

thank you kindly for your thoughts. the thing is, these non chi-fi companies seem to take a lot longer to have product development cycles.

witness the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and the Brooklyn Bridge (i don't need the Bridge because i'm connecting it to my PC), they have an older DAC chip in it, the ES9028. it's not even the 9038PRO. we're now going to the 9068 nowadays due to the on-board baked in MQA full unfolding functions on the 9068! in order to get the 9038PRO, one would have to get the Mytek Manhattan II (version ii) at $6,000!

my current Astell and Kern Kann Alpha uses DUAL ES9068 chips in it, DUAL! one for each channel. Granted, it's the implementation of these dac chips that determine the final sound quality, not merely the presence of these chips, i fully understand that, but seriously, many of these other companies, not singling out Mytek for any reason and i love Mytek products (except for the price, but love the face plate and the display!), ought to hurry up a bit on their product development cycles!

the baked in, on board MQA full unfolding capabilities of the ES9068 makes full MQA unfolding no longer an issue whatsoever and it's the natural evolution, as per ESS chip maker, from their ES9038 models.

so...that's a long winded way of saying, i'm not inclined to buy the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ which is 2-3 years old by now with its 9028 chip, while all the rest of the players have already progressed to the 9068 chips, which is one generation beyond 9038, which in and of itself is beyond the 9028 chip in the Brooklyn DAC+.

 

[mdl]

thank you kindly for your thoughts. the thing is, these non chi-fi companies seem to take a lot longer to have product development cycles.

witness the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and the Brooklyn Bridge (i don't need the Bridge because i'm connecting it to my PC), they have an older DAC chip in it, the ES9028. it's not even the 9038PRO. we're now going to the 9068 nowadays due to the on-board baked in MQA full unfolding functions on the 9068! in order to get the 9038PRO, one would have to get the Mytek Manhattan II (version ii) at $6,000!

my current Astell and Kern Kann Alpha uses DUAL ES9068 chips in it, DUAL! one for each channel. Granted, it's the implementation of these dac chips that determine the final sound quality, not merely the presence of these chips, i fully understand that, but seriously, many of these other companies, not singling out Mytek for any reason and i love Mytek products (except for the price, but love the face plate and the display!), ought to hurry up a bit on their product development cycles!

the baked in, on board MQA full unfolding capabilities of the ES9068 makes full MQA unfolding no longer an issue whatsoever and it's the natural evolution, as per ESS chip maker, from their ES9038 models.

so...that's a long winded way of saying, i'm not inclined to buy the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ which is 2-3 years old by now with its 9028 chip, while all the rest of the players have already progressed to the 9068 chips, which is one generation beyond 9038, which in and of itself is beyond the 9028 chip in the Brooklyn DAC+.

I agree...just spending a few minutes in the web you'll see that smsl 300mkii has the latest asahi kasei ....ak 4191eq... we're talking floor noise -154dB...what Armin would say!!
It is their competitive advantage and the reason they have a market. They attract customers with flagship chips at incredible prices. Not that I'm not interested in latest technology ...far from it.but I still believe that a well implemented not latest chip could beat flat out a brand new DAC chip. Take the reason why companies like Naim don't follow trends buy still have a super solid reputation and I will say fan base. Someone might argue that it's the sound that count. I heard very good things about borderpatrol but again mqa origami unfolding via hardware isn't soooo easy (plus I keep on asking if I really discern an 192khz Qubuz Vs 384khs mqa hi Res file).
Choices aren't massive if your put budget, latest chips, full MQA...were talking a few few options...
I always rate what counts for me most...and I want it all of course))

 

[RichB]

... I heard very good things about borderpatrol but again mqa origami unfolding via hardware isn't soooo easy (plus I keep on asking if I really discern an 192khz Qubuz Vs 384khs mqa hi Res file).

A 192kHz qobuz is a high-res file which is definately overkill. A ersatz 384khz MQA file could never be technically better, marketing aside.

- Rich

 

[PortableMusic]

I agree...just spending a few minutes in the web you'll see that smsl 300mkii has the latest asahi kasei ....ak 4191eq... we're talking floor noise -154dB...what Armin would say!!
It is their competitive advantage and the reason they have a market. They attract customers with flagship chips at incredible prices. Not that I'm not interested in latest technology ...far from it.but I still believe that a well implemented not latest chip could beat flat out a brand new DAC chip. Take the reason why companies like Naim don't follow trends buy still have a super solid reputation and I will say fan base. Someone might argue that it's the sound that count. I heard very good things about borderpatrol but again mqa origami unfolding via hardware isn't soooo easy (plus I keep on asking if I really discern an 192khz Qubuz Vs 384khs mqa hi Res file).
Choices aren't massive if your put budget, latest chips, full MQA...were talking a few few options...
I always rate what counts for me most...and I want it all of course))

i also feel that there comes a point where the quietness, or the noise, is no longer an issue. i'm not sure that i'd care if it's -115db or -125db or similar. they are beyond what is necessary and beyond what is audible, and that's plenty good.

it's akin to all the talk about black levels in tv's. in OLEDs, when there is zero light because that pixel is not turned on at all, i.e. emitting zero light, it is as black as it can possibly be. no need there to further dissect or parse out which model is every so slightly different, as they all have essentially perfect or infinite black levels. ditto for the signal to noise as discussed earlier.

 

[RichB]

i also feel that there comes a point where the quietness, or the noise, is no longer an issue. i'm not sure that i'd care if it's -115db or -125db or similar. they are beyond what is necessary and beyond what is audible, and that's plenty good.

it's akin to all the talk about black levels in tv's. in OLEDs, when there is zero light because that pixel is not turned on at all, i.e. emitting zero light, it is as black as it can possibly be. no need there to further dissect or parse out which model is every so slightly different, as they all have essentially perfect or infinite black levels. ditto for the signal to noise as discussed earlier.

The difficulty for OLEDs is coming out of black and motion handling. So, there is that

- Rich

 

[Wolvebain]

@Wolvebain: I, too, appreciate your reply.

may i ask what might be a step up from this Mini i-Pro3 please? i do wish to have full MQA unfolding capabilities, and a current/latest generation dac chip (or chips) inside, rather than an older generation dac chip. some manufacturers continue to use dac chips from 5+ years ago, probably due to lower R&D costs to push out a new product, but for a consumer like me, i'd rather have the latest generation. DACs are somewhat akin to PCs: you buy a current, reasonably high end model, it'll last you a good long while. if one were to buy a lower end PC, or one that is already a couple years old, then it wouldn't last as long due to newer features like new ports, new card slot form factors (i.e. M.2 memory slots). of course, nowadays, the pace of PC development has slowed down a bit, unlike, say, 10+ years ago, when things changed so quickly!

i'm hoping for an even better DAC+headphone amp so i may connect it to my PC via USB, so i may navigate via my PC's large monitor for ease of use.

thank you in advance.

Hi bud.. I also replied to you DM as well..

An iFi Pro iDSD may be a better choice as a similar sized All-in-one.
Though, there are some good choices that I have not evaluated as yet. SMSL DP5 for example.

Also, if you're looking non-streaming, or something plugged into a PC/Pi, etc. then the D90+A90 stack is a great choice... though I would go for a SMSL M400+ A90 stack instead

For me personally, I'm going to get a R2R NOS DAC again... perhaps the Holo May KTE (if I can get it locally with warranty/support)

 

[mdl]

A 192kHz qobuz is a high-res file which is definately overkill. A ersatz 384khz MQA file could never be technically better, marketing aside.

- Rich

Hi rich,
i agree. it's not just a marketing thing...(who doesn't fall for that now and then). Realistically,with time...I'm leaning towards Qubuz for the quality of its repertoire, the stability of the app and somehow it sounds better. I have been on tidal for almost 12 months then off...then on again with the promotional 3 months. I am digesting without a hurry the best course of action. Even without having a very trained or refined ear, I can definitely perceive the step up between 16 bit 44.1 and 24 bit 48Khz... I take that having all these new possibilities it's a quite a new era for music lovers!

 

[mdl]

The difficulty for OLEDs is coming out of black and motion handling. So, there is that

- Rich

@RichB & @PortableMusic I hope I didn't give you the impression that I only look at the specs...if anything I don't do well on that side. I see why for example shiit wants to re-introduce higher level of distortion in their amplifier if it sounds better! (I haven't heard them just saying that philosophically I can see the point!).

 

[RichB]

@RichB & @PortableMusic I hope I didn't give you the impression that I only look at the specs...if anything I don't do well on that side. I see why for example shiit wants to re-introduce higher level of distortion in their amplifier if it sounds better! (I haven't heard them just saying that philosophically I can see the point!).

@RichB & @PortableMusic I hope I didn't give you the impression that I only look at the specs...if anything I don't do well on that side. I see why for example shiit wants to re-introduce higher level of distortion in their amplifier if it sounds better! (I haven't heard them just saying that philosophically I can see the point!).

I had not heard that Shitt want to introduce more distortion. That should not be hard.

- Rich