Inexpensive, Musical DAC wanted...

[M00ndancer]

As for the "musical" part, as others have written, that description is audiophile marketing nonsense. A DAC should not have a sonic signature that it imparts onto audio as that's not its function. Effects Processors and DSPs are supposed to do that, not DACs...

That is so true, a good DAC is a DAC that have the features you need and doesn't add anything to the sound. Speakers and headphones on the other hand... that's why we have EQ and DSP.

 

[porotikos]

how come noone suggest khadas toneboard?

 

[BillG]

how come noone suggest khadas toneboard?

When there are less expensive, transparent DACs that don't require the purchase of an additional case and assembly, why would they?

 

[porotikos]

When there are less expensive, transparent DACs that don't require the purchase of an additional case and assembly, why would they?

i dont have toneboard yet (waiting to see if the new one is worth getting instead of the old one) and obviously i am no endorsee of any. so please dont talk my question the wrong way.
but in my mind, from the dacs mentioned in the first post, only topping d10 is cheaper. a case can be found for 7 dollars or something like that.
so id like to ask this question. are there dacs in the price range if khadas, that are equally good or even better? because i had the impression from lurking the forums, that toneboard was the real deal. if this has changed, i really would like to know who the rivals of it are, and perhaps i get one of them instead.
Thank you very much

 

[bravomail]

I use a 2009 MacBook Pro as a music server (Audirvana and AIFF files), connected to a Cambridge Topaz AM10 and Polk LSiM703.
I have the MBP connected to the Topaz via its audio out, thus using the MBP's internal DAC.
Considering an inexpensive external USB DAC. No particular need for optical, coaxial, volume control.
Options:

• Topping D10 ($90)
• Topping D50 (currently at Drop.com for $165)
• Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 (used for around $120 or so)
• Other?

Not interested in Schiit (hate the name).

Not really interested in DSD or insane upsampling. All my files are 16/44.1 CD rips.
What I'm looking for is a musical DAC with a good midrange, clean lows, non-fatiguing highs.
What say ye? Any advice?

It all depends on implementation and good DAC can make a world of difference mainly in detalization of the sound. In short, you will hear tiny things which were veiled before. My suggestion is Schiit Modi3. If you hate the name - paint it over with the name of your choosing, say "Sweet Melody TriStar"

 

[macauley86]

It all depends on implementation and good DAC can make a world of difference mainly in detalization of the sound. In short, you will hear tiny things which were veiled before. My suggestion is Schiit Modi3. If you hate the name - paint it over with the name of your choosing, say "Sweet Melody TriStar"

Yesterday I got the Topping D10 and the Cambridge DacMagic 100 and hooked them up to the Topaz for a few hours each. I couldn't really tell any difference in sound between the two. I'm thinking of keeping the D10 since it's newer and USB powered (one less cable); I also read somewhere that the CA DM 100's power cable is fairly crappy.

 

[macauley86]

For $75, I also got the DacMagic XS v2 DAC/amp for my main laptop and Sennheiser cans. It sounds pretty sweet. Definitely more powerful than my MBP's audio out. Sounds fuller, too, but not sure I'm imagining it.

 

[macauley86]

Based on your setup I would recommend upgrading your amp before spending any money on a DAC. The Topaz AM10 is probably the weak point of your system. Take a look at the impedance graph of your speakers and these comments from John Atkinson.

View attachment 35609
I'm no expert when it comes to the interaction between loudspeakers and amplifiers but based on this I would recommend an amplifier that has plenty of power and no issue with low impedance loads. Your AM10 is only rated for 35 Watts into 8 ohms with no spec even provided for 4 ohms. That is pretty pathetic. If I had those speakers I would want an amp with 10 times as much power. It would probably have to be a standalone power amp and I would use a DAC with volume control to adjust the volume. If you don't plan to use any analog sources then there really isn't a need for an analog preamplifier or an integrated amplifier.

I emailed Cambridge Audio about the Topaz and 4-ohm loads. This is their reply:

Thank you for contacting Cambridge Audio.
The AM10 is rated to work with speakers between 4-8 ohms. The AXA35 is only rated to work with 8 ohm speakers. It will likely still work with 4 ohm speakers, but it will run hot and in the long run this can damage the unit, so it is discouraged.

 

[RayDunzl]

Musical DAC wanted...

When I want a musical DAC...

I turn off the TV, and change the system DAC's digital source to something resembling music.

 

[macauley86]

When I want a musical DAC...

I turn off the TV, and change the system DAC's digital source to something resembling music.

 

[Phorize]

I use a 2009 MacBook Pro as a music server (Audirvana and AIFF files), connected to a Cambridge Topaz AM10 and Polk LSiM703.
I have the MBP connected to the Topaz via its audio out, thus using the MBP's internal DAC.
Considering an inexpensive external USB DAC. No particular need for optical, coaxial, volume control.
Options:

• Topping D10 ($90)
• Topping D50 (currently at Drop.com for $165)
• Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 (used for around $120 or so)
• Other?

Not interested in Schiit (hate the name).

Not really interested in DSD or insane upsampling. All my files are 16/44.1 CD rips.
What I'm looking for is a musical DAC with a good midrange, clean lows, non-fatiguing highs.
What say ye? Any advice?

You’ve had lots of good suggestions. If all you are looking for is a decent measuring dac to go from your laptop usb to single ended output, the d10 is a very nice option. Very reasonably priced, measured extremely well, functionally no more and no less than what you state you need, looks nice, 0000s if units shipped by this point and no signs of anything other than satisfied users. I bought my dad one for his then dacless 2 channel set up and he loves it. If all you need is what you say you need you cannot go wrong with the d10.

 

[Phorize]

You’ve had lots of good suggestions. If all you are looking for is a decent measuring dac to go from your laptop usb to single ended output, the d10 is a very nice option. Very reasonably priced, measured extremely well, functionally no more and no less than what you state you need, looks nice, 0000s if units shipped by this point and no signs of anything other than satisfied users. I bought my dad one for his then dacless 2 channel set up and he loves it. If all you need is what you say you need you cannot go wrong with the d10.

And I just noticed I answered an ancient post

 

[Katji]

Has there been any analysis/discussion of what people mean by wanting a "musical DAC"?

 

[Veri]

Has there been any analysis/discussion of what people mean by wanting a "musical DAC"?

Something that "slams"

 

[Katji]

That one needs to be limited to bass/sub-bass, when the "skin factor" is more applicable. ...Otherwise I might wonder.

[You'll probably notice that I tend to refer to words and meanings, that the meaning is subjective. ...Like with colours.
I like to start with the basic definition in a dictionary. Not assume something like "subtext" or implied association.
...Let that be the start of my work-in-progress virtual essay on it. ]

Seriously though, I'm lost with the "musical." ...The best I can do it suggests "warmth" not "sterile" - it probably implies digital vs. analog.

 

[Zensō]

Has there been any analysis/discussion of what people mean by wanting a "musical DAC"?

Well-engineered DACs don’t sound like anything, so a “musical” DAC must have technical flaws of some sort, typically distortion and/or non-linearity.

 

[Katji]

Whatever. Thing is, what does it mean, what does the person mean by it.

 

[Phorize]

Whatever. Thing is, what does it mean, what does the person mean by it.

You'd need some one who wants a "musical" dac to explain. Prepare to be disappointed though, because they'll probably just produce one tautology after the next.

 

[Katji]

Well, make them say it. Then we take it from there. They mustn't just assume I know what they mean.

 

[bobbooo]

Here you go. Oh wait...an inexpensive musical DAC? Nope can't help you there.