In the near future, speakers will be made from Superwood

[SHB]

Hey, just going by what Mr. Paul said himself.

He first realized what the sound was that he desired when he stretched a string between two 10 penny nails driven into a railroad tie. His mother called him an idiot because no one’s going to strap on railroad tie to play guitar.

He designed his guitar between working days at Epiphone in Brooklyn and playing with bands on the weekends. Weeknights, he’d stay late and build his prototypes after busting ass all day making the company guitars.

 

[Neddy]

I've been using Smith's CPES on exterior wood (and boats) for decades.

Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer

Sounds like there might be similar 'lignin' chemistry involved?

 

[Roland68]

Superwood is still wood so I imagine any wood glue will do. I think this was mentioned in the technical article I first read about it.

There are now many high-tech wood materials that can no longer be reliably bonded with wood glue, or even with epoxy resin/adhesive.
I'm particularly curious because the topic isn't addressed on the manufacturer's website or in the FAQ section, which seems a bit odd.
I haven't found anything in relevant technical articles on the topic of bonding or bonding options for Superwood either.

If normal bonding doesn't work, then its use in instrument construction and also for speaker cabinets becomes significantly more difficult.

 

[mhardy6647]

Paperstone is another kinda, sorta similar option that has been fairly popular for the fabrication of nonresonant bases (ahem, "plinths") for turntables.

Our Story - PaperStone® Products

PaperStone is a beautiful and heavy-duty composite surface known for its performance, its warm touch, its contemporary appearance, and sustainability.

paperstoneproducts.com

 

[SHB]

There are now many high-tech wood materials that can no longer be reliably bonded with wood glue, or even with epoxy resin/adhesive.
I'm particularly curious because the topic isn't addressed on the manufacturer's website or in the FAQ section, which seems a bit odd.
I haven't found anything in relevant technical articles on the topic of bonding or bonding options for Superwood either.

If normal bonding doesn't work, then its use in instrument construction and also for speaker cabinets becomes significantly more difficult.

Doing some research, wood glue is probably not going to work. A high-quality two-part epoxy resin is the superior choice for a permanent, structural bond. (Gemini AI)

 

[Roland68]

Doing some research, wood glue is probably not going to work. A high-quality two-part epoxy resin is the superior choice for a permanent, structural bond. (Gemini AI)

Since the manufacturer remains completely silent on bonding options and processes, I fear that conventional bonding is not possible or does not achieve the necessary strength for speaker cabinets.
This is also the case with some other modified wood materials.

AI statements are absolutely useless in this case, as there is no information or empirical data that the AI could draw on.

 

[Tell]

The best part is that it has no environmental downside. It uses no caustic chemicals during manufacturing and creates no hazardous waste when machined.

That's not fully true is it? Seeing that it's compressed it uses more trees for one speaker, hence less environmental friendly.
But do the same with hemp instead and I guess it would be a bit less environmentally bad?

 

[Roland68]

That's not fully true is it? Seeing that it's compressed it uses more trees for one speaker, hence less environmental friendly.
But do the same with hemp instead and I guess it would be a bit less environmentally bad?

It's a good thing the process doesn't require large amounts of energy. And yes, that was sarcasm .

But with steel, it's many times worse, and with aluminum, in addition to the energy required during production, toxins are also released, not to mention that aluminum is toxic to humans.

 

[Keith_W]

There are now many high-tech wood materials that can no longer be reliably bonded with wood glue, or even with epoxy resin/adhesive.
I'm particularly curious because the topic isn't addressed on the manufacturer's website or in the FAQ section, which seems a bit odd.

Normal wood glue works by penetrating the fibres of the wood. It's not just a surface bond. Woodworkers know that some woods bond better than others - porous woods work especially well, and dense oily woods (such as ebony or some hardwoods) form weaker bonds. We also know that if you try to bond two non-porous surfaces together, the bond is very weak.

Wood glue forms the strongest bond, provided the wood is suitable. In fact the bond is often stronger than the wood itself. Epoxy is a suitable alternative when wood glue is unlikely to work. It works better if there is a larger surface to be bonded, so if I have to bond metal to wood, I usually drill some holes into the metal and insert some pegs for the strongest bond.

 

[mhardy6647]

Since the manufacturer remains completely silent on bonding options and processes, I fear that conventional bonding is not possible or does not achieve the necessary strength for speaker cabinets.
This is also the case with some other modified wood materials.

AI statements are absolutely useless in this case, as there is no information or empirical data that the AI could draw on.

I mean... there are screws.

 

[NTK]

I mean... there are screws.

Screws? Biscuit joints.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

Just looked at the web site and they are promising mechanical properties data real soon now. The only number currently available is the 6 to 1 strength to weight ratio that they promote.

 

[Roland68]

I mean... there are screws.

It's an alternative, but not as easy as some people think.
Due to the density and strength of the material, conventional self-tapping screws simply break off. This requires very expensive specialty screws with drilling functions and high torque, possibly even pre-drilling. Alternatively, threads can be added, either directly or via inserts.
I've already worked with some modified woods and made experiments. Working with them is extremely difficult and requires special and sturdy tools. Hardwoods and plywood are toys in comparison, and Superwood is supposed to be even more durable than all other modified woods.

 

[somebodyelse]

Screws? Biscuit joints.

Those are dominos not biscuits. Both provide some mechanical alignment (more in the case of dominos than biscuits) and greater bond surface for glue, but still won't be great if the glue doesn't stick. It's an open question how well the tools will cope with the modified woods, unless someone (@Roland68 maybe) has already tried them. AFAIK non-CNC domino tooling is limited to Festool - presumably everyone else is waiting for patents to expire.

 

[NTK]

Those are dominos not biscuits. Both provide some mechanical alignment (more in the case of dominos than biscuits) and greater bond surface for glue, but still won't be great if the glue doesn't stick. It's an open question how well the tools will cope with the modified woods, unless someone (@Roland68 maybe) has already tried them. AFAIK non-CNC domino tooling is limited to Festool - presumably everyone else is waiting for patents to expire.

The design of the joint matters, not just the total surface area. The glue in the tenon joints needs to resist shear (to prevent pull out) instead of cleavage or peel, and glue joints tend to work much better against shear.

 

[mhardy6647]

It's an alternative, but not as easy as some people think.
Due to the density and strength of the material, conventional self-tapping screws simply break off. This requires very expensive specialty screws with drilling functions and high torque, possibly even pre-drilling. Alternatively, threads can be added, either directly or via inserts.
I've already worked with some modified woods and made experiments. Working with them is extremely difficult and requires special and sturdy tools. Hardwoods and plywood are toys in comparison, and Superwood is supposed to be even more durable than all other modified woods.

I wonder if cyanoacylates work with this stuff...

This discussion is reminding me of the old joke:

Since aircraft black boxes are made to survive any crash... why don't they just build airplanes out of the stuff that the black boxes are made of?

I guess the best way to use "superwood" for loudspeaker enclosures is cast a big ol' block of the stuff and then use lasers (fricking lasers) to blast away every molecule that you don't want in the final enclosure.
Sort of the way (stone) sculptors work: they say it's easy. Start with a block of stone, and chisel off all of it that doesn't look like the final sculpture.

before:

after:

(artist's conception )

 

[somebodyelse]

The design of the joint matters, not just the total surface area. The glue in the tenon joints needs to resist shear (to prevent pull out) instead of cleavage or peel, and glue joints tend to work much better against shear.

View attachment 479258

True, but not always sufficient. Conventional dowels operate the same way and still fail if the bond is inadequate. We're still missing data for this modified wood so we're all speculating.