In-room Measurements (REW): Ascend RAAL Sierra Towers, Horizon, 2EX, and Revel F206

[raistlin65]

Yes I definitely saw the KEF R3 vs Sierra 2EX blind listening test results, because I’m the one that performed and posted them

I bought these Revel F206 because:

1. I wanted an additional pair of speakers for background music in my living room (vs my theater/media room).

2. The Revel F206 seem to be the default science-based speaker recommendation around audio science forums (both AVS and ASR).

3. I wanted to hear for myself how they sound and compare vs the Ascend RAAL Towers, and also be able to do a blind comparison for the benefit of others.

When I originally bought my Ascend RAAL towers, it was actually after I realized many flaws in my Bowers and Wilkins 702 S2 both subjectively and in the measurements (which I hadn’t learned about prior to buying them, unfortunately). I did a lot of research into the science, saw exactly the flaws of the 702 S2 that I heard in the measurements, and using measurements narrowed down my replacement purchase to either the Revel F206 vs Ascend Sierra RAAL Towers. They were tied in my mind, but I ended up going with the Ascends first because local Revel dealers were too hard to find/contact.

Anyway, yeah these results are quite interesting, it does seem to be the RAAL that makes the difference here — because I don’t know what else it could be. One theory with the KEF R3 vs Sierra 2EX was that maybe the 2EX won because of the wider dispersion, but I’m told the Revel F206 and Sierra RAAL Towers actually have similar dispersion width. I can confirm that unlike the KEF R3, the Revel F206 sound quite good at fairly extreme off-axis angles and do a great job filling the room with sound. So what else could explain it scientifically? I don’t know.

Well, thanks for doing that other listening test, too

There's definitely something almost magical about the Raal tweeter for the Sierra lines price point.

 

[Icboschert]

It's been shared a few times around here and other forums but if you want to build a kit, the Philharmonic BMR is really hard to beat for the price. Need a beefy amp to make them go but could always cross over to a sub to increase sensitivity.

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/phiharmonic-audio-bmr-speaker-kit/

 

[5wavesup]

I own the Philharmonic BMRs and I will second/third the descriptions given for the RAAL tweeter.

 

[mikewxyz]

Echo: Thanks for posting the measurement data. I'm always curious how other speakers/ rooms compare to mine.

Can you measure the Revel's with your subwoofer(s) on and post the SPL and Distortion graphs?

 

[echopraxia]

I own the Philharmonic BMRs and I will second/third the descriptions given for the RAAL tweeter.

I wonder then: How would the current state of science (psycho-acoustics) explain this "almost magical" trait of the RAAL tweeter?

It seems almost everyone who owns them is in agreement that something special is there -- now I am left wondering why this is.

 

[echopraxia]

Echo: Thanks for posting the measurement data. I'm always curious how other speakers/ rooms compare to mine.

Can you measure the Revel's with your subwoofer(s) on and post the SPL and Distortion graphs?

Yeah I took some measurements of that, I'll post them a bit later when I'm at my laptop.

 

[raistlin65]

I wonder then: How would the current state of science (psycho-acoustics) explain this "almost magical" trait of the RAAL tweeter?

It seems almost everyone who owns them is in agreement that something special is there -- now I am left wondering why this is.

Well, I may not know the science behind it. But now I'm thinking I definitely need to get some Sierra Lunas for front heights at some point. I imagine the Raal tweeters might create a very spacious effect.

 

[Ilkless]

I wonder then: How would the current state of science (psycho-acoustics) explain this "almost magical" trait of the RAAL tweeter?

It seems almost everyone who owns them is in agreement that something special is there -- now I am left wondering why this is.

Dispersion width is the leading candidate, especially since the prominent affordable RAAL designs (BMR, Ascend etc.) are by engineering-centric companies that try to minimise directivity mismatch while keeping dispersion broader than waveguided speakers.

 

[napilopez]

I wonder then: How would the current state of science (psycho-acoustics) explain this "almost magical" trait of the RAAL tweeter?

It seems almost everyone who owns them is in agreement that something special is there -- now I am left wondering why this is.

Dispersion width is the leading candidate, especially since the prominent affordable RAAL designs (BMR, Ascend etc.) are by engineering-centric companies that try to minimise directivity mismatch while keeping dispersion broader than waveguided speakers.

I've not had the opportunity to listen to any speakers with RAAL tweeters, but indeed that seems to be the answer. One of the more interesting studies pointing to the benefits of wide dispersion for recreational listening is described in section 7.4.2 of Toole's book. It's one of Toole's own studies; In it he compares a Quad ESL 63, a KEF 105.2, and a Rega Model 3:

(Let me know if it's not okay to repost this image here)

They all have fairly similarly flat on-axis, but the Quad clearly had most even and spectrally similaroff-axis response, while the KEF and Rega were quite wonky. It seemed like the Quad would 'win' if we just went by the idea that flat-on axis + smooth off-axis were the primary predictors for sound quality. Instead, the quad ended up losing by a significant margin in mono listening and by a smaller margin in stereo. (Keep in mind the actual recording techniques were still the principle determinants of spatial qualities though)

This also reminds me of that M2 vs Salon2 blind test where there Revel appears to have won because of its slightly wider dispersion, despite significantly messier on axis and reflections curves.

Granted, this was one study with 10 listeners, and there does seem to be room for preference depending on the individual, what you're using the speakers for (i.e., mixing vs recreational listening) and your listening environment. I'd be really curious to see a similar study with modern speakers, as its no longer all that hard to find speakers with both smooth on axis and off-axis, in both wide and narrow directivity designs.

But in general for recreational listening, it seems wide dispersion is that good stuff.

 

[dutchboy]

As you can see by my post above, I’m starting to think that Ascend is the significantly superior speaker in terms of sound quality / realism / clarity.

But in my room without EQ, the Revel F206 is a clear winner because the bass quantity is so much stronger. As a result, I ended up preferring the F206 on >50% of songs I listen to.

After applying EQ (bass boost) though to the Ascends so their bass output matches the Revel, the results have changed dramatically. I am finding myself prefer the Ascends on >90% of songs now.

I’m guessing the sound quality differences come mostly from the wider dispersion pattern of the Ascend towers. The Revel’s horizontal dispersion is still excellent, but the Ascend is better (by their published measurements) due to the ribbon tweeter and smaller diameter woofers.

The fact that I have to equalize the Ascends in this room is not a point in their favor though. Personally, what I’d LOVE to see is an Ascend “supertower” with double the woofers (four vs two) so it will naturally achieve this result without EQ (and without the associated concerns about headroom when listening loudly).

Fortunately for me though I pair my towers with subwoofers, so EQ works just fine as a way of safely boosting mid-bass output that the subwoofer can’t or shouldn’t reach.

Thanks so much for doing this work. I think a lot of people end up comparing these two speakers, I know I am.
I have 2 PSA V1811's and a V3601 in my media room. Would you prefer the ascends in a situation like that?
I have Anthem Room Correction Genesis and minidsp.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Sorry I missed this excellent post, any chance of uploading the REW files again? links are dead