In-ceiling small yacht setup

[Sokel]

The OP probably knows this, but it is worth saying

I'm sure he does, but the Kef and SVS suggestions seems like he forgot about it?
I can't see any IP rating for such environment by those, and sea needs of the highest ones.

 

[Reddoc]

What I would also consider, is that any gear installed in there would better be certified for outdoors or harsh environments like that.
And I mean ALL., from speaker to the last interconnect cable. Only the moist of the people who dive and then dry in there is enough, let alone the sea spray, etc.

(view seems like west Mediterranean by the light? Spain or south France somewhere? )

Yes, it's a hostile environment for hifi.
Not so much for people - Cayman Islands??

 

[Sokel]

That is a fair point, but of course looking at outdoor-rated products does restrict your choices considerably. For interconnects, you could simply use some non-conductive grease to prevent corrosion.

That's why what you see at such builds are highly specialized, most often custom.

 

[tineared]

For awhile I considered in-ceiling speakers for my home theater, but between the proximity to the ocean and the summer temperatures in my attic, I gave up on the notion.
I provided a link to a reputable retailer of that sort of equipment...

https://www.westmarine.com/marine-audio/

 

[Sokel]

Neutrik for example offers IP67 nice connectors:

https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/xlr-connectors/xlr-cable-connectors/xx-hd-series?c=audio

Of course they must be used with their mates and right cables, etc .

 

[kyuu]

The only in-ceiling speakers I can immediately recommend that are rated for such an environment, while still having hi-fi credentials, are the Revel C383XC. You'll likely want to supplement with a subwoofer, although with a bit of DSP it might deliver enough low-end depending on your expectations. You probably want to install a couple of them at least also rather than just one, for coverage and increased SPL handling.

I would note that JBL, for example, only recommends replacing the grille on their professional in-ceiling speakers with an optional aluminum one moisture getting to the speaker) to avoid rusting of the included steel one (the aluminum grille also has a scrim cloth to prevent moisture getting to the speaker via the grille). Otherwise, they seem to consider being installed inside a cavity with no direct exposure to the high-humidity environment to be sufficient protection for the rest of the speaker. Although, all those professional JBL in-ceiling speakers also seem to include a back-can, so.

JBL also has a specialty marine line of speakers, such as this one.

Edit: Oh KEF does have an outdoor rated line: Ci200QR.

 

[asanchis92]

I called KEF and they often install the Ci200-250rr-THX in yacht interiors. It’s IP64 rated.

They also commented that the Ci200rr-THX is very similar to Ci200QR in tone and directivity.

Additionally he added that playing only one in mono would be big sacrifice since most modern recordings are stereo and he wasn’t concerned with imaging given time alignments since the co-axial would relief this issue.

He leans towards the Ci200RR - THX with concerns of the 250 being too big for whomever could be directly bellow it give the low ceilings.

Thoughts?

 

[quattro98]

I’d run them in stereo. I don’t think standing directly under the speaker would be any different between either of them, so would get the bigger ones if they fit. KEF also has in-ceiling subwoofers to complement them (along with amp with appropriate DSP).

Ci250RRb-THX- Architectural Speaker | KEF

Explore premium in-wall speakers designed for exceptional sound quality and seamless integration. Upgrade your home entertainment system with the CI5160RL series.

us.kef.com

Whatever you do, please post pictures of the install.

I called KEF and they often install the Ci200-250rr-THX in yacht interiors. It’s IP64 rated.

They also commented that the Ci200rr-THX is very similar to Ci200QR in tone and directivity.

Additionally he added that playing only one in mono would be big sacrifice since most modern recordings are stereo and he wasn’t concerned with imaging given time alignments since the co-axial would relive this issue.

He leans towards the Ci200RR - THX with concerns of the 250 being too big for whomever could be directly bellow it give the low ceilings.

Thoughts?

 

[asanchis92]

62' small yacht? What do you consider a big yacht, 100 footer? Sorry for off topic..

Haha, It's certainly big for me, but it's not like a Hollywood movie "yacht". It's a luxurious single family sailboat.

 

[asanchis92]

I’d run them in stereo. I don’t think standing directly under the speaker would be any different between either of them, so would get the bigger ones if they fit. KEF also has in-ceiling subwoofers to complement them (along with amp with appropriate DSP).

Ci250RRb-THX- Architectural Speaker | KEF

Explore premium in-wall speakers designed for exceptional sound quality and seamless integration. Upgrade your home entertainment system with the CI5160RL series.

us.kef.com

Whatever you do, please post pictures of the install.

Yes I shall...

What amp/controller would you suggest that has capability of running three separate zones? And can run auto corrections or have DSP capabilities.

 

[quattro98]

Yes I shall...

What amp/controller would you suggest that has capability of running three separate zones? And can run auto corrections or have DSP capabilities.

I would discuss with someone experienced in this area. I think you’d want something designed for custom install use. If possible, something that is familiar in a home system makes sense to keep things consistent.

Taking a look at traditional home equipment, this could work. It does not have EQ, but does have tone controls.

MODEL M4 - 8 Channel 100W Distribution Amplifier Powered by HEOS™ | Marantz - US

MODEL M4 is a four-zone, rack-mountable distribution amplifier engineered to offer superb Marantz sound from a wide range of streamed music services, locally connected music sources, and your TV.

www.marantz.com

Another option would be a Bluesound or WiiM system. These would be used with a 6 channel amp for the stereo speakers in 3 zones. Subs would be powered by the KEF amps.

Wireless HiFi Music Streamers & Amplifiers – Bluesound

Upgrade your stereo system with Bluesound wireless components, including DACs and stereo music streamers. Enjoy high-resolution audio and seamless multi-room control.

www.bluesound.com

WiiM | Redefining Home Audio: Affordable, Innovative, Hi-Res Sound

WiiM unveils a new era of home audio – an ultimate wireless sound system that paints your home with stunning sound, room by room, through a whole-house WiFi network.

www.wiimhome.com

If you look at the KEF product pages for each of the speakers, there are lots of additional downloads. For a system like this, the subs make sense in pairs along with the matching amp.

https://images.salsify.com/image/upload/s--cxHVmQ43--/c79be5f9533b69ea530826b5c944c24089bff767.pdf

https://images.salsify.com/image/upload/s--cb_RmU32--/eb4145d08fd9efc8e0a0279b92037450f956dbba.pdf

 

[staticV3]

Thank you, I hadn't considered a single driver, this makes a lot of sense! Would this create a point source? And would I run it mono?

Yes, and yes.

Would you still add one or two subwoofer to handle to low end?

I'd try w/o subs first, then add some only if desired.

Additionally he added that playing only one in mono would be big sacrifice since most modern recordings are stereo

Stereo cannot be usefully played back with four speakers stuck in the ceiling.

You need a proper stereo triangle for that.

and he wasn’t concerned with imaging given time alignments since the co-axial would relief this issue.

You have four phase-shifted sound sources all playing simultaneously. That they're coax has no bearing on that.

 

[Wesseling Audio Lab]

I can't tell if the left side has the same roof angle where I placed the black circle, but could a stereo pair install in that location at left and right? Subs in a different location.

 

[Geert]

He leans towards the Ci200RR - THX with concerns of the 250 being too big for whomever could be directly bellow it give the low ceilings.

Then with a ceiling that low, I would first consider the option of installing a pair of very small normal loudspeakers combined with a sub.

I don't know the dimensions of your boat, so you need to check if the problem I've illustrated applies to you situation. In my experience a typical yacht does not have more than 1 foot of headroom so unless you are seated, you mostly will be outside the usable coverage of the loudspeakers (usable as in, more or less flat frequency response up to at least 10kHz).

Guideline on ceiling speaker arrangement (for public addressing to illustrate the concept, doesn't even meet HiFi requirements):

 

[Sokel]

Completely agree, ceiling is tricky.
I would take ideas from some of the best, like this one:

There's 12 speaker panels in there, perfectly blended.


More here:

https://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/yacht-design/ultimate-guide-onboard-sound

A circuit board sealant wouldn't be the worst idea for the gear that are about to be used, there's various products around who make a PCB immune.
Thermals but be taken into account though.

 

[asanchis92]

Yes, and yes.


I'd try w/o subs first, then add some only if desired.


Stereo cannot be usefully played back with four speakers stuck in the ceiling.

You need a proper stereo triangle for that.


You have four phase-shifted sound sources all playing simultaneously. That they're coax has no bearing on that.

Gotcha!

Would going with two only make it less bad? and or advisable?

 

[kyuu]

Gotcha!

Would going with two only make it less bad? and or advisable?

Opinions may vary, but for overhead speakers (and really party speakers in general where there is no fixed listening position) stereo is kind of meaningless seems to me. You're not going to get any sort of meaningful spatial qualities out of it.

 

[asanchis92]

Wow that's wild!

Wouldn't that many drivers just exacerbate the nulls and peaks?

 

[kyuu]

I'm not sure what you mean. Multiple speakers playing the same content may cause comb filtering, but you should be placing the speakers so that the direct sound from the speakers have minimal overlap. The combined response from the speakers will be the same, though, just at +3dB SPL for each additional speaker.

 

[Sokel]

Wow that's wild!

Wouldn't that many drivers just exacerbate the nulls and peaks?

I assume you refer to my post.
No, the opposite, and as panels they will take advantage of the short of infinite baffle.

They will also play A LOT louder but also fuller in an open space like that.
Stereo does not makes sense there.