• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Impulcifer, Copy speaker sounds to headphones!

Robbo99999

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
3,276
Likes
2,812
Location
UK
Just an FYI for anyone interested in Impulcifer, I've been using it for over a year, and highly recommend it, if you are motivated. My hesitation has nothing to do with what it's capable of. For me it's beyond amazing, literally a dream come true. The illusion of extremely high quality speakers 8 ft in front of me is nothing short of stunning. Magical, really, next level. If you have the inclination for some DIY, have or can buy the modest equipment, can handle using command lines with numerous options, and the patience for some experimentation, the potential rewards are better than you imagine. Of course, HRTF's are personal, and I did probably a dozen measurement sessions, with several times that many trials of using different combinations of command options and EQ tweaks, until I hit the HRTF that totally changed how I listen to music. And it's much better than the sound of my speakers in my room. All the flaws have been fixed. I can't say it's the best sound you've heard, but it's the best sound I've heard in decades of searching for great sound.

"Think of headphones that mimic the sounds of the best studio in the world." - My experience exactly. I often feel like I'm sitting in the recording session, or in the 1st row of the concert. If others could hear what I'm hearing Impulcifer would be getting far more recognition.

My equipment:
Senn HD600 headphones
Sound Professionals MS-TFB-2 binaural mics
Zoom H2N interface binaural mics to laptop
Windows laptop
UMIK-1 mic for room recording
Gallo Strada mains and TR-3 subs
Amazing, gotta try this when I've got some time.....bookmarked in reference to your binaural mics. I already have the UMIK. Does it matter much if the speakers you do the testing with, to derive your HRTF, does it matter much if they don't go down to 20Hz? I mean can you extract the HRTF from the measurements in a somewhat smoothed & interpolated "average" fashion so that you can make sure you're not importing room mode issues and speaker limitation issues?
 

jaakkopasanen

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2020
Messages
38
Likes
145
The headtracking seems to be quite personal thing. A few people are saying that they cannot stand speaker virtualization without head tracking and some are not affected almost at all. You also get used to it after listening to virtual speakers for a while without head tracking.
 

jaakkopasanen

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2020
Messages
38
Likes
145
Amazing, gotta try this when I've got some time.....bookmarked in reference to your binaural mics. I already have the UMIK. Does it matter much if the speakers you do the testing with, to derive your HRTF, does it matter much if they don't go down to 20Hz? I mean can you extract the HRTF from the measurements in a somewhat smoothed & interpolated "average" fashion so that you can make sure you're not importing room mode issues and speaker limitation issues?
I personally use Dynaudio Focus 110 bookshelf speakers which don't go below 60-80 Hz. With room correction, Impulcifer will boost the bass to optimal level. Sometimes this causes ringing in the bass but that can be mitigated with decay time management eg. --deacy=200.
 

jimbomb

Member
Joined
May 13, 2020
Messages
8
Likes
9
Amazing, gotta try this when I've got some time.....bookmarked in reference to your binaural mics. I already have the UMIK. Does it matter much if the speakers you do the testing with, to derive your HRTF, does it matter much if they don't go down to 20Hz? I mean can you extract the HRTF from the measurements in a somewhat smoothed & interpolated "average" fashion so that you can make sure you're not importing room mode issues and speaker limitation issues?
Jaakko can speak far better than I can to the technical aspects, and how much influence the specific speakers and room have on the Impulcifer end result, but my personal experience is that the sound I get is much better than my speaker/room combination. Many of the flaws in my speakers and room have been totally eliminated. I hear no crossover issues. The timbre and EQ balance across the spectrum is far better, as EQ is highly adjustable both with the Impulcifer commands, and with Equalizer APO in HeSuvi . The extension and clarity at the top and bottom is much improved. Mid-range clarity is extraordinary. And I don't hear any room resonances that were very noticeable before. I don't know how representative my experience is, but my recommendation is to try it.
 
Last edited:

Jose Hidalgo

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
863
Likes
827
Location
France
Think of headphones that mimic the sounds of the best studio in the world. The HRIR solution takes a step closer to that.
Customization aside, that's already what HeSuVi does with some of its HRIR presets : the famous ooyh_0 of course (Genelec Studio), plus the Sydney / Dubai / New York / etc. (high-end rooms around the world). If anybody has more HRIRs that could be tested in HeSuVi, please don't keep them for yourselves : me and others will be happy to test them. I wish there was a forum somewhere where people would share their own HRIRs !

For those willing to pay for it, Out Of Your Head is worth it, because it's also a hassle-free solution. Install, select preset, listen. Unfortunately it's too expensive IMHO, plus the developer seems to still have trouble with Win 10 compatibility.

Of course for those willing to spend time and effort to make their own HRIR measurements, Impulcifier is an absolute must. Once again Jaakko brings an awesome solution to listeners around the world. Unfortunately I'm not there yet myself : the whole process is too complicated for the average person, and I guess it can hardly be simplified.

I honestly would be willing to pay for someone to physically create my own custom HRTF without me having to do anything except put some mics in my ears, lol. Maybe there's a business opportunity for some people ?
 
Last edited:

jaakkopasanen

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2020
Messages
38
Likes
145
Of course for those willing to spend time and effort to make their own HRIR measurements, Impulcifier is an absolute must. Once again Jaakko brings an awesome solution to listeners around the world. Unfortunately I'm not there yet myself : the whole process is too complicated for the average person, and I guess it can hardly be simplified.
Ironically enough I created Impulcifer to make the process as simple as possible so that anyone could do it. Getting the core algorithm right turned out to be a bit more challenging than I initially anticipated. My plan is to create a browser application with graphical user interface which guides the user through the measurement process so that the user doesn't have to have any prior knowledge. There's still some work to do though, for example a web app for AutoEq is on the list first.
 
OP
C

CREMA

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2020
Messages
15
Likes
42
Location
South Korea
The headtracking seems to be quite personal thing. A few people are saying that they cannot stand speaker virtualization without head tracking and some are not affected almost at all. You also get used to it after listening to virtual speakers for a while without head tracking.

Thank you for making a great Impulcifer.

Head tracking is obviously an attractive feature, but sometimes it's not necessary.

I sometimes lie in bed and listen to music. In that case, immobile imaging and sound images are required.

I'm curious about Smyth Realiser with head tracking, but I'm satisfied with the current Impulcifer.

I always feel that I'm listening to the future of sound now. Thank you so much.
 

Jose Hidalgo

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
863
Likes
827
Location
France
Thank you for making a great Impulcifer.
I sometimes lie in bed and listen to music.
And when you lie in bed facing up, do you feel music coming from the roof ? :p
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
1,845
Likes
1,959
Location
Nashville
The headtracking seems to be quite personal thing. A few people are saying that they cannot stand speaker virtualization without head tracking and some are not affected almost at all. You also get used to it after listening to virtual speakers for a while without head tracking.
Would it be that much of a problem to incorporate headtracking. There a multiple commercial off the shelf systems that do headtracking, couln't one of them be brought into the Impulcifier environent as a option for those who would want it?
 

jaakkopasanen

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2020
Messages
38
Likes
145
Would it be that much of a problem to incorporate headtracking. There a multiple commercial off the shelf systems that do headtracking, couln't one of them be brought into the Impulcifier environent as a option for those who would want it?
Impulcifer only does the measurement part, not the real time processing. It would be possible to add the required extra angles to the BRIR measurement but still the changes in real time according to the head movements would have to to be implemented elsewhere. oratory1990 told me that issue on PC will be latency since the delay between head movement and changes to the sound has to be only a few milliseconds max. Essentially a proper implementation would require a hardware solution, like the Smyth Realiser.
 

Chrispy

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
2,839
Likes
2,211
Location
PNW
Curious, is this similar to or what Crutchfield uses for their "SpeakerCompare"? Can't imagine using headphones to replicate speakers in a room in a meaningful way, tho....
 

maverickronin

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
2,146
Likes
2,657
Location
Midwest, USA
Also, speakers play in a room. Without the room and its spatiality, you're just playing headphones.

Honestly, I never liked the "room". If I ever used one of these personalized kinds of systems about the second thing I'd do is record impulse responses in a big empty field or something. Localization works just fine outdoors, so it would seem the only thing your brain really needs is "floor" bounce.
 

Jose Hidalgo

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Aug 15, 2020
Messages
863
Likes
827
Location
France
Curious, is this similar to or what Crutchfield uses for their "SpeakerCompare"? Can't imagine using headphones to replicate speakers in a room in a meaningful way, tho....
And yet you only have two ears, and you use them all the time for accurately rendering any 3D environment...
 

Chrispy

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
2,839
Likes
2,211
Location
PNW
Because they're headphones, not speakers in a room. Just can't imagine a headphone conveying such properly. Sort of like watching a video of an audio system on youtube....
 

maverickronin

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
2,146
Likes
2,657
Location
Midwest, USA
Because they're headphones, not speakers in a room.

That's why you measure the impulse response, at your ear, of the speakers in the room and convolve it with the impulse response of headphones. Then you pretty much get everything but the chest thumping bass.
 

Chrispy

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
2,839
Likes
2,211
Location
PNW
That's why you measure the impulse response, at your ear, of the speakers in the room and convolve it with the impulse response of headphones. Then you pretty much get everything but the chest thumping bass.
Doubt it but then I hate using headphones....unless necessity forces such and that's pretty rare. I'll stick with my audio on youtube analogy.
 
Top Bottom