Nice writeup, glad that you really like this amp :=)
What are your impressions between bridged/mono and unbridged/stereo? Any negatives?
What are the devices on top of some of the components and why have you used them?
thanks :=)
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What are your impressions between bridged/mono and unbridged/stereo? Any negatives?
What are the devices on top of some of the components and why have you used them?
thanks :=)
OP
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I did not notice a specific performance difference at lower volumes, despite the potential (small) hit to SINAD for bridging. At high volumes, the speakers really sing when driven in bridged mono mode!
The ball on the left top deck is an Amazon Echo Dot that also acts as an Eero mesh extender for my back yard, which is behind this wall. The black square next to it is my Apple TV 4K, for streaming video, and Apple Music to the WiiM Ultra via HDMI/Arc through the Sharp Aquos TV. The WiiM Ultra is my streamer. That’s a simulated Nixie tube clock to the top right, for time of course. Underneath the WiiM Ultra is my spectrum analyzer, and behind it (not visible) is an inexpensive DAC that feeds the analyzer’s input. Not visible also is an SMSL PO100 Pro DDC that I have hooked up to the WiiM Ultra’s USB output, but the sole reason I have it is so that I can simultaneously feed the DAC for the spectrum analyzer and the DSPeaker Anti-mode X2D room correction unit that sits directly underneath the spectrum analyzer—I really wish WiiM would allow multiple simultaneous outputs from the Ultra streamer already. Next to them is the FiiO K9 AKM DAC that receives the room-corrected and high-pass filtered digital signal from the Anti-mode unit. I actually have an SMSL D400 Pro DAC coming to replace this and I will be returning the FiiO. Silly reason for the exchange but I simply like the way the D400 Pro matches the pair of PA200s aesthetically. Of course the DAC feeds the PA200s, which drive the KEF LS50 Meta stand mount loudspeakers. The SVS SV-3000 subwoofer attaches directly to the analog subwoofer output of the Anti-mode (which also serves bass management and preamp duties).
The two Bluetooth speakers on the bottom rack are just stored there and keep my cat out from the wire nest in the back. The speakers are used in the backyard during summer parties and get-togethers.
-Ed
OP
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If you have B200s, you should have nothing to question. I’d have loved a pair of those but MSRP for just one B200 is only $100 less than what I paid for the whole pair of PA200s. Different realm of cost, but to me B200 would be worth the difference if I were willing to spend that much.Oh man, never have a I questioned my b200s more than in this moment! I’m really glad there’s another great option, tho
Maybe that second system that I don’t really need, but as always, want. Ha!
Thanks for the review. It’s helpful.
-Ed
Well, I agree with you on the pricing. I, too, was hemming and hawing the b200 cost for some time. The PA7 was great… until it went above 80dB then it started to sound ‘crunchy’ and just unpleasant really. I was going to wait for the Black Friday sale on the b200s, but they popped up used, like new condition, for $900 and I jumped on it. I’m certainly risking it a bit as returns are not possible for me…
The difference at lower volumes is there, but turning them up really lets the speakers shine in new ways. Admittedly, I’ve spent wayyyy too much time listening since just yesterday, lol.
Excited to see where these PL200s go as I was seriously looking at a SMSL Ho200 + Ao200 combo as well, but now the PL seems more attractive.
Exciting to see all these great products for reasonable money…
Not going to wait for the matching DAC. I reckon a stack of the 200 series with all the scalloped metal facia lining up would look epic.
To be fair it's approximately twice the price of this set up to get into a entry point purifi basic power amp.
Yeah, this was my hang up with the Purifi, as well.
OP
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A nice idea, but these run warm enough that I wouldn't want to stack them. Plus, the D400 Pro is a decent enough match; came in today, in fact:
-Ed
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OP
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Yup! And a 4th scallop.
I do. I am almost always home when anybody wants to use this particular TV, though, so it’s not a big deal for me to turn the amps on at that time. Most of the time, my family primarily uses either the TV in the kitchen or the TV in the dining room, and not this one here in the family room, which mostly only gets used late at night by my wife and me.
-Ed
Guddu
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OP
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The B100s were having issues with the safeties not protecting the amp. After getting them warranty replaced twice, I decided to move away from them.
With these, I have no such concern whatsoever. They can really crank and the speakers absolutely sing with them. While there have been no third party measurements done yet, we’ve seen that the specifications and measurements (A-weighted) provided by both Topping and SMSL are generally not far from the truth, so I was fine taking the gamble. Furthermore, I really wanted to experience for myself how the 1MHz switching technology would work out and in the end am super duper pleased with how these perform. The first class-D amp that pleases my ears as much as the class-AB B100s did, with no fear of tripping safeties or burning out an amp, and quite a lot cheaper than B200s.
-Ed
Guddu
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Good deal.
P.S. I guess it’s worth digging in on high bandwidth switching.
If anything, I would be interested in multiple frequencies response and distortion than anything else for this amplifier.
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Tovarich007
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@Eddnod : I don't know if Gan Fets and super high switching frequency prove or not real sound benefits. That's highly controversial.
Anyway, what matters in the end is sound and reliability. It seems you've got it all with this PA200, and that's fine. Maybe I would go for these amps in bridge mode in a next future, they're compact, super powerful, pretty looking and not very expensive. I'll wait a bit for more returns of experience.
As for the Topping B100 which is also on my short list -less powerful but enough for me and a super performer - it seems unfortunately again that Topping has a failure in quality control. Maybe you've just got a rare flawed unit with your B100, bad luck for sure. But anyway, it's a bit shocking to sell products which can be randomly affected by security issues, moreover highly praised products for performance and sound, It's puzzling about Topping, because it's not their first model which seem to be affected by more or less begnin or serious reliability problems. What exactly happened with your B100s ?
Maybe the percentage of units affected is very low, I hope so, but it's still annoying and it would be appreciated to get some comments and reactions of the company about this.
Once again, I would deeptly appreciate that Amir would not only measure the products he tests (what he's doing very well), but also give his appreciation on inner built quality and reliability, especially for this kind of issues. That's way more important IMO than a few percentage of diffrence in distorsion and SINAD
Anyway, what matters in the end is sound and reliability. It seems you've got it all with this PA200, and that's fine. Maybe I would go for these amps in bridge mode in a next future, they're compact, super powerful, pretty looking and not very expensive. I'll wait a bit for more returns of experience.
As for the Topping B100 which is also on my short list -less powerful but enough for me and a super performer - it seems unfortunately again that Topping has a failure in quality control. Maybe you've just got a rare flawed unit with your B100, bad luck for sure. But anyway, it's a bit shocking to sell products which can be randomly affected by security issues, moreover highly praised products for performance and sound, It's puzzling about Topping, because it's not their first model which seem to be affected by more or less begnin or serious reliability problems. What exactly happened with your B100s ?
Maybe the percentage of units affected is very low, I hope so, but it's still annoying and it would be appreciated to get some comments and reactions of the company about this.
Once again, I would deeptly appreciate that Amir would not only measure the products he tests (what he's doing very well), but also give his appreciation on inner built quality and reliability, especially for this kind of issues. That's way more important IMO than a few percentage of diffrence in distorsion and SINAD
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Thank you, that is nice to read :=)
Fabulous, especially if it is Real harmonic texture/character (not noise artefacts/texture/character or a mixture), especially because low energy harmonics can easily be confused with noise and as such be filtered out/removed or reduced (become less audible/less amplifyed.
I wonder if the GAN Fet junction benefits are the following....
- slow turn off action but fast turn on action (like Local FB, ClassA offset biasing, both when applied together). Like the B100s/ClassB superior Local FB is doing or like the action of a Schottky Diode where the junction forward voltage drop is a low/slow off action but there is still a very fast switching on action. As tested, the B100s/ClassB superior Local FB and Schottky Diode both exhibit low/very low noise/feedback characteristics. Perhaps the GAN result is a combination of both :=)
- Perhaps the resulting low/very low noise/feedback characteristics are allowing the PWM carrier frequency to be stablely raised to 1Mhz which is allowing the LC Demodulation Filter to work more efficiently. From 20-20K that is 50 times and from 20-100K that is 10 times, where 10 times (1 decade) is the suggested minimum requirement. This means that the GAN ClassD amps bandwidth can be increased to 100K/max (which is 5 times above 20-20K/audio frequencys) whereas with a 600Khz PWM carrier the ClassD bandwidth would be 20-60K/max (which is 3 times above 20-20K/audio frequencys). In this scenario, a PWM carrier frequency of 2MHz would provide a ClassD bandwidth to 200K (10 times) and 20-20K/audio frequencys (10 times).
- Very nice that the GAN Fet is on the way to providing a stable higher PWM carrier frequency. It could be suggested that GAN Fet tech is material tech. PFFB tech is also advancing and providing a DSP/Digital/analogue solution (depending on the implementation). Does anybody know if GAN and PFFB tech are being utilised together?
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OP
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Three failures. Three B100s died on me and were warranty replaced. From me doing the simple act of trying to change LED colors on my DAC.
-Ed
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
Clarification on this point.
Dead time is important as a percentage of switching frequency***, (rather than an absolute value) - which is what defines the dead time related distortion.
***(EDIT : to be more precise, the inverse of switching frequency - a percentage of the switching pulse period)
So although the switching speed is much faster, this is offset by the higher (around 2 to 2.5 times ) switching frequency. So with GAN devices, you can take advantage of the faster switching time by:
- Keep the switching frequency (SF) the same, and benefit from reduced (%) dead times, and lower thermal losses.
- Increase the SF proportional to the switching speed, reduce ultrasonic switching noise in the output, but lose the dead time/ thermal benefit.
- Compromise the SF increase to get a some reduction ultrasonic noise, while still getting some dead time and thermal benefit.
I don't know whether the SF increase in this amp corresponds to point 2 or point 3.
In any case, well implemented feedback should correct the dead time distortion - as shown in the very low distortion figures in measurements of decent non GAN class D amps. Remember that for audibility there is only noise, distortion and frequency response (and for amps, output impedance and power). Any design implementation topics, such as GAN - if they make an improvement - will show it in the usual metrics.
I look forward to seeing those metrics for this amp. Particularly to see how it compares to the Hypex 502mp
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MAB
Major Contributor
Good idea on waiting until a product and company has established a track record.
One point, Topping's past reliability problems have nothing to do with build quality. And no way to adequately check for their reliability at ASR (requires destructive testing on a large statistical sample of parts, often in ovens, usually on subassemblies not full product, etc.) I've made many comments on what comprehensive reliability testing encompasses, and how far out of scope it is for ASR to even scratch the surface on reliability testing. Reliability is earned over time by the manufacturer. Topping and others refresh models so often and try new circuit implementations, it's no wonder reliability is not sufficient and a bit of an afterthought. The PA5 failures were due to a series of design decisions (potting a module), and failure to test the reliability envelope of the encapsulation. Each one of their various reliability problems I have read about have a totally different root cause, none are quality issues, all appear to be issues in the design. Aside from the technical issues, the customer service from the resellers was way worse (as reported by many members), so unclear if these companies are interested in the quality rep, or just selling early adopter kit.
All of this needs to happen at the manufacturer if they want that earned reputation of reliability. The sad part is amplifiers are not really a significant part of the audio experience. They amplify and the good ones are completely indistinguishable from each other. They don't impart anything to the music, except gain.
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