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Importance of DAC in AV receiver for both HT and stereo use?

pat355

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hi,

I'm new to AV receivers and I've been reading a fair amount and I have simple question (well, I'm sure it's not simple at all) about the importance of the DAC chip in an AV receiver when it is intended for both home theater AND stereo use. I want to limit the amount of boxes/clutter I have and want to move from stereo set-up only to a more versatile configuration.

My question is regarding the DAC part and more specifically the chip used in the DAC...
Does it make a big difference for SQ if it's an ESS 9038PRO vs ESS 9038Q2M? or a 9026 in other models?

My most important use case is the stereo set-up, HT comes in second.

My budget is in the $3k range, although if I can spend less, then even better ;)

Thanks a lot for your insights! :)
 
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pat355

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I thought I read here in one of the threads that the Anthem MRX 740 has either the ESS9038 pro or ESS9038Q2M.
Maybe I misunderstood...

My question is not specific to this particular chip though...just in more general terms whether this is a particularly important component to look at for my use case, since Stereo is still more important to me than HT application...
 

Vincentponcet

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I thought I read here in one of the threads that the Anthem MRX 740 has either the ESS9038 pro or ESS9038Q2M.
Maybe I misunderstood...

My question is not specific to this particular chip though...just in more general terms whether this is a particularly important component to look at for my use case, since Stereo is still more important to me than HT application...

The implementation can degrade the theoretical performance of the chip. So the chip itself is only part of the story.

"Recent batches of 540, 740 and 1140 have ESS ES9010K2M Sabre."

MRX1140 was tested here
 

Sancus

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No, you won't hear any differences due to DACs unless you're buying something truly horrid/broken like the NAD T758. To even theoretically be able to hear an issue over the distortion and noise your speakers and room add respectively, you'd need a seriously dead quiet place with no background noise and some of the absolute best, lowest distortion speakers in the world.
 
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pat355

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No, you won't hear any differences due to DACs unless you're buying something truly horrid/broken like the NAD T758. To even theoretically be able to hear an issue over the distortion and noise your speakers and room add respectively, you'd need a seriously dead quiet place with no background noise and some of the absolute best, lowest distortion speakers in the world.
thank you. This is useful.

Small digression: I find it a bit hard to find a receiver that has good measurements though from Amir's tests (maybe Denon?)...it is a bit disconcerting for people/n00bs who don't read multiple dozens of pages here and elsewhere to find the right nugget when the supposedly premium brands (Arcam, Anthem) don't test so well at least from a measurement standpoint ;)
 

Sancus

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thank you. This is useful.

Small digression: I find it a bit hard to find a receiver that has good measurements though from Amir's tests (maybe Denon?)...it is a bit disconcerting for people/n00bs who don't read multiple dozens of pages here and elsewhere to find the right nugget when the supposedly premium brands (Arcam, Anthem) don't test so well at least from a measurement standpoint ;)
Well, ASR is never going to be a generalist review/recommendation site. It's technical. In general(assuming no other flaws like filter issues or anything called out as broken) 80+ SINAD is going to be fine, especially for speakers. It's a LOT easier to hear problems on headphones so it's reasonable to have a somewhat higher standard for DACs used with those.

If you want to read more about what's audible, these threads are good:


Keep in mind there's a difference between "this number is 100% guaranteed inaudible by known principles", "this number is likely inaudible based on all studies/tests" and "this number is probably inaudible in 99% of home scenarios using speakers". They're 3 different things, and Amir generally applies the 1st standard to his reviews(though he has graded AVRs a bit lighter, closer to the 2nd standard, than stereo DACs).
 

DVDdoug

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I've NEVER heard ANY defect from a DAC, including the 1st CD player the 1st soundcard that I owned. And I've never owned a stand-alone DAC.
 

Vacceo

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I have used the DAC´s from several AVR´s, PC´s, portable players and cell phones. To be honest, the differences were in the speakers or headphones. Probably I have stone ears.
 

Chrispy

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I have used the DAC´s from several AVR´s, PC´s, portable players and cell phones. To be honest, the differences were in the speakers or headphones. Probably I have stone ears.
Or just a lack of imagination :)
 

MLaranjeiras

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I compared sound for stereo from my receiver Pioneer VSX LX 503 vs an Sansui AU-217, my first integrated. Sansui sounded better for me, my wife and my son.
After an upgrade on my set, I have a Sansui AU-X911DG as the amplifier for stereo. It is also better than Pioneer receiver.
Now we compared three sources os Tidal going to the Sansui AU-X911DG with the same cable Wireworld Equinox Interconnect:
  1. Tidal from Pioneer in pure direct mode;
  2. Tidal from Oppo BDP 105 (Flac up to 48/24) - Better than 1;
  3. Tidal from Mac Mini+Topping E50 MQA Dac - Same sound as 2.
Om my experience, the AV receiver sounds better on Pure Direct Mode and probably, for music, an integrated amplifier trends to sound better than a AV receiver.
 

Chrispy

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I compared sound for stereo from my receiver Pioneer VSX LX 503 vs an Sansui AU-217, my first integrated. Sansui sounded better for me, my wife and my son.
After an upgrade on my set, I have a Sansui AU-X911DG as the amplifier for stereo. It is also better than Pioneer receiver.
Now we compared three sources os Tidal going to the Sansui AU-X911DG with the same cable Wireworld Equinox Interconnect:
  1. Tidal from Pioneer in pure direct mode;
  2. Tidal from Oppo BDP 105 (Flac up to 48/24) - Better than 1;
  3. Tidal from Mac Mini+Topping E50 MQA Dac - Same sound as 2.
Om my experience, the AV receiver sounds better on Pure Direct Mode and probably, for music, an integrated amplifier trends to sound better than a AV receiver.
Was that a sighted comparison? Level matched? Quick switching? Don't waste that kind of money on Wireworld....
 
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