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I'm tired of audiophile and high fidelity confusion.

OP
D

diegooo1972

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You finished as you started. 10/10 for consistency.
You have said nothing and talk about consistency ? Go back to your audiophile world. You just confirm what majority of people belive of this world. We are lucky that not all are like you.
 

Jimbob54

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You have said nothing and talk about consistency ? Go back to your audiophile world. You just confirm what majority of people belive of this world. We are lucky that not all are like you.
Death throes of the most inept troll I've seen in a long time.

Edit. Apart from drunk bleach drinking man.
 

raistlin65

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#Raistlin65 We are not talking about audio in general. We are talking about electronic equipments. Objectivism regarding elettronic equipment is not epistemiology. You can have fun with equipments only because science don't behave like you say. The science that build equipments is completely objective or it's not science. You create your own belief in complete disregard to scientific method.
The scientific method allow you to listen to music and you should have more respect of the concept behind all of this. I'm very happy that scientist don't think like you. Science need to remove bias at all cost and you talk about epistemiology ? Elettronic engineers have no doubts about audiophoolery. And without them you don't have your toys. Only few of them decide to joke people and sell illusions. Hypocrites. Everything for money as always. Give them your money. Is the right way to balance things. I'm very happy they are a small minority cause otherwise you ain't get your new toys tomorrow. That grey scale in the middle is delusional and completely out of the science you rely in every day.
There are so many problems with what you just said, I wouldn't even know where to begin. :facepalm:
 

Jimbob54

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You have said nothing and talk about consistency ? Go back to your audiophile world. You just confirm what majority of people belive of this world. We are lucky that not all are like you.
It is worth pointing out the first sentence you ever posted here :

"Hi all I'm new to this wonderfull world of audiophile."

Where did it all go wrong?
 

BDWoody

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No more pop corn. I'm out. You are just not confident enough to admit how you choose equipments to pretend to stay also in the objective side.
You make that discussion useless. Bye
what-we-have-here-is-a-failure-to-communicate-quote-2.jpg
 

Jimbob54

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Quite a thread disaster. OP starts a thread to complain about confusion over the terms audiophile and High Fidelity...but creates a perfect storm of confusion for the readers, while blaming everyone but himself for the confusion.
Objectively it was a disaster. Subjectively, I'd give it an 8 . Or around charcoal grey.
 

Thomas savage

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You have said nothing and talk about consistency ? Go back to your audiophile world. You just confirm what majority of people belive of this world. We are lucky that not all are like you.
Chill out mate , iv read through all this and i have no idea what your arguing about/for .
I'd chalk most of it up to misunderstandings and some language issues .

My suggestion is we all move on.
 

Harmonie

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Some read comics, some read ASR and find their fun too :p

Pizza, beer, Covid, wine and sometimes there are serious Hifi subjects too.
Personally, I enjoy very much What are we listening to right now..
 
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The posters in this thread were simultaneously playing whack-a-mole with a holographic mole. The spectacle also brought to mind those streakers at football or baseball games that successfully dodge, evade and outrun the players and referees and coaches trying to tackle or pursue them, while slinging clods of turf at them. Solderdude and MattHooper had him in a lock on the mat a few times, but he shapeshifted and slipped out of their grasp. From the stands, it was a hilarious spectacle.

Through twelve pages and counting, the OP posted not a single original thought or idea (though implying he was imparting wisdom and understanding of objectivity and the scientific method that the rest of us lacked), redefined terminology, made several unclear or meaningless statements with ill-defined terms, used simplistic binary thinking to make some untenable generalized statements, shifted his stance to more nuanced ones without admitting it when presented with counter-arguments, avoided answering excellent questions that would have dismantled some of his statements, disrespected some people who tried to engage him with reason or questions about terminology, adopted statement qualifications (such as solderdude's "applies to electronics only") without acknowledging so, all the while never admitting that he had made any incorrect or unclear or too-sweeping statements, yet managed to keep everyone entertained and glued to their computer monitors, and got oodles of what he craves - attention. It strikes me that he seems to have difficulty with complex logical thought. A career in politics next, perhaps?
 
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Jimbob54

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The posters in this thread were simultaneously playing whack-a-mole with a holographic mole. The spectacle also brought to mind those streakers at football or baseball games that successfully dodge, evade and outrun the players and referees and coaches trying to tackle or pursue them, while slinging clods of turf at them. Solderdude and MattHooper had him in a lock on the mat a few times, but he shapeshifted and slipped out of their grasp. From the stands, it was a hilarious spectacle.

Through twelve pages and counting, the OP posted not a single original thought or idea (though implying he was imparting wisdom and understanding of objectivity and the scientific method that the rest of us lacked), redefined terminology, made several unclear or meaningless statements with ill-defined terms, used simplistic binary thinking to make some untenable generalized statements, shifted his stance to more nuanced ones without admitting it when presented with counter-arguments, disrespected some people who tried to engage him with reason or questions about terminology, adopted statement qualifications (such as solderdude's "applies to electronics only") without acknowledging so, all the while never admitting that he had made any incorrect or unclear or too-sweeping statements, yet managed to keep everyone entertained and glued to their computer monitors, and got oodles of what he craves - attention. It strikes me that he seems to have difficulty with complex logical thought. A career in politics next, perhaps?
If its in a self contained thread , its fun. I can see why people despair if its in a proper subject/ review thread.

A similar game is afoot in the MQA thread and a few related ones.
 
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If its in a self contained thread , its fun. I can see why people despair if its in a proper subject/ review thread.

A similar game is afoot in the MQA thread and a few related ones.
Yes, there are simultaneous operas going on in the MQA and DSD threads too. Who needs a TV subscription when you've got ASR?
 

North_Sky

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I think we share some taste in music. Sinnerman is an amazing performance by Nina Simone. Thumbs up.
Yes, she's one of my favorite female singers, along with Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald and many more.

* Did you see this movie...the remake of the original (Steve McQueen)?

 
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North_Sky

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Wow, Jesus is here (the Russian Jesus). ...What a number!
Thomas, what made you pick that guy as your new avatar, he's from nowhere land.
 

MattHooper

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Through twelve pages and counting, the OP posted not a single original thought or idea (though implying he was imparting wisdom and understanding of objectivity and the scientific method that the rest of us lacked), redefined terminology, made several unclear or meaningless statements with ill-defined terms, used simplistic binary thinking to make some untenable generalized statements, shifted his stance to more nuanced ones without admitting it when presented with counter-arguments, avoided answering excellent questions that would have dismantled some of his statements, disrespected some people who tried to engage him with reason or questions about terminology, adopted statement qualifications (such as solderdude's "applies to electronics only") without acknowledging so, all the while never admitting that he had made any incorrect or unclear or too-sweeping statements, yet managed to keep everyone entertained and glued to their computer monitors, and got oodles of what he craves - attention. It strikes me that he seems to have difficulty with complex logical thought. A career in politics next, perhaps?
As apt a summation as any I've read!

(As to the following, I do not believe the OP to be an actual Troll....)

There is a vexing issue in these types of miscommunications. So long as someone is working on pure intuitions, or a bias he isn't aware of, or is simply not thinking consistently, the responses tend to look just like that of an actual troll. Trolls make posts that stir up opposing views, and then studiously avoid points against the claim to continually re-assert the claim over and over, substituting ad hominem as replies instead of addressing points. And of course continuall goal-post moving. The game is made to keep people both annoyed and engaged, acting almost as *if* the troll is interacting with other posts...but never quite really.

This is exactly what you get when someone is engaged in confused or biased reasoning, where they simply can not examine their assumptions. To them what they are stating is simple, clear and obvious, thus anyone arguing against it must be doing so out of stupidity, ignorance or, usually, some other negative motivation of malice. "You don't want to understand = the problem is your bad personality, not my argument."

So what you get is a sort of Poe's Law problem for identifying trolls. There's almost nothing that a troll will do that can't also be attributed to someone not trolling, but simply operating on biases or assumptions they haven't recognized or examined.
 
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As apt a summation as any I've read!

(As to the following, I do not believe the OP to be an actual Troll....)

There is a vexing issue in these types of miscommunications. So long as someone is working on pure intuitions, or a bias he is aware of, or is simply not thinking consistently, the responses tend to look just like that of an actual troll. Trolls make posts that stir up opposing views, and then studiously avoid points against the claim to continually re-assert the claim over and over, substituting ad hominem as replies instead of addressing points. And of course continuall goal-post moving. The game is made to keep people both annoyed and engaged, acting almost as *if* the troll is interacting with other posts...but never quite really.

This is exactly what you get when someone is engaged in confused or biased reasoning, where they simply can not examine their assumptions. To them what they are stating is simple, clear and obvious, thus anyone arguing against it must be doing so out of stupidity, ignorance or, usually, some other negative motivation of malice. "You don't want to understand = the problem is your bad personality, not my argument."

So what you get it a sort of Poe's Law problem for identifying trolls. There's almost nothing that a troll will do that can't also be attributed to someone not trolling, but simply operating on biases or assumptions they don't haven't recognized or examined.
That is an excellent analysis by you. I agree that the OP was likely not trolling, though the symptoms are similar, as you point out. I think the fact that he acquiesced to the validity of some of the points made by solderdude points to his not trolling. And there also appears to be a language barrier involved (as in English versus his native tongue), so we have to make allowance for that. I think you were quite right when you posted earlier that he might not have thought through the complexities of the implications of his statements. However, his psychological habit of standing his ground and doubling down and steadfastly refraining from examining his assumptions makes it hard for him to accept that the real world may be more complex than his model accounts for. This might be due to the seeming (to himself) clarity and unassailable logic of his position, as you say, but I think an ego-defensive habit of wanting to never admit he might have misstated something or that his statements entail some self-contradictory aspects and need qualification, is also at play here. Whew, it is going to take hours for the dopamine highs from reading these posts to dissipate!
 
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North_Sky

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240 posts is a pretty good discussion, no matter how you cut it.
Let it be ... or go home. We're free to discuss or not; it's not the place and time for judgements. This is an Audio subject as valid as any other.

My personal opinion of course.
 
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