ifi Zen Signature One DAC vs ifi Zen DAC V2

[Lexxie]

Hello, thanks for reading this post.

I am in a situation where I can buy Signature One for $120 on Craigslist (used), or Zen DAC V2 for $200.

My research on it led to some confusion over whether Signature series might be better than non-signature (seems so). But are Signature V1 better than standard V2, that's the question!

I know V2 can amplify a headphone by itself but I'm not interested in that as I surely have a better amp to feed to. So I guess what I wonder is,
1. What differences in DAC quality if any (detail, stage, colour) ?
2. What differences in pre-amp (analogue-out) quality ?

Disclaimer: I'm sympathetic to MQA-nay-sayers but I'm also a performing artist with free Tidal for life, so that's what I get whether I like it or not (I have no comparison to tell you).

I am neutral on MQA debate from having no references to say. Yes I know V2 does its own decoding (but so what, is it bit-different from what the tidal app does, aren't they just doing the same process making the same bits anyway, so how is this a feature I should go for?) I feel like well, just because I don't know for sure and MQA 3.0.1.1 might come in the future, it might be worth it to get the V2 so it gets firmware update when MQA gets better.

Otherwise it's a real question #1 and #2 above, to make my choice. As a GOLDEN EAR who has a $200 max to spend on the DAC, I would pay up to the max happily to get better sound. But if the Signature One is actually better sound at $80 less, then of course you know which one I want.

Please help! Thanks.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Welcome @Lexxie !

My research on it led to some confusion over whether Signature series might be better than non-signature (seems so). But are Signature V1 better than standard V2, that's the question!

May I ask on what you based your research?

1. What differences in DAC quality if any (detail, stage, colour) ?

Should be none if both DACs have been designed properly.

2. What differences in pre-amp (analogue-out) quality ?

None have an analogue preamp strictly speaking. It is, as most DACs, digital attenuation from the D/A chip itself.

As a GOLDEN EAR who has a $200 max to spend on the DAC, I would pay up to the max happily to get better sound.

Who is a GOLDEN EAR ?

Honestly, I wouldn't buy anything from this brand anymore. I assume that you're living in NA, so you could consider the Schiit Modi+, a product that we actually know about its objective performance:

Schiit Modi+ DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Schiit Modi+ stereo USB DAC. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $129. There are three inputs and are nicely stepped through using the momentary switch. The white LED that indicates the selected input is nice but alas, there is some...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Lexxie]

Vintage Flanker said:
May I ask on what you based your research?

My research, well, youtube search and google search, about 10 or 15 different ones. After a while I can get a guess what's a common opinion and which different opinions come together. You're basically getting second-hand opinions without hearing the horse's mouth itself, but, you also know these hifi-nerds get to listen to dozens of different dacs every month so, they'd notice and tell some differences (hopefully). Definitely get second and 10th opinions !

Vintage Flanker said:
None have an analogue preamp strictly speaking. It is, as most DACs, digital attenuation from the D/A chip itself.

Probably I use wrong language. What I mean is that DAC goes from D to A. So A is coming out, and A has some kind of heartbeat, blood, life system that is amped before the amp really does it, so I call it pre-amplification. But that's part of the quality the DAC gives, not just the digital voodoo but the quality of the analogue too.

Vintage Flanker said:
What is a GOLDEN EAR ?
It means like, after the piano tuner does the Steinway for Vienna Philharmonic, they play some arpeggio all over and the Golden Ear points, this one, E-flat-6, it's 3 cents too flat. Basically I have freaky superhearing. Perfect pitch and adjectives to describe what I hear. But it doesn't qualify me to know what to do as I begin my journey to try to get some affordable things so the music doesn't bother me when I listen at home.

Vintage Flanker said:
Honestly, I wouldn't buy anything from this brand anymore. I assume that you're living in NA, so you could consider the Schiit Modi+, a product that we actually know about its objective performance:

OK, why? This one doesn't have balanced output. A lot of audiophile said I'd like Zen DAC because of R-2R DAC or something with more "analogue-ish" sound. I guess I'd ask, when you recommend it, it's based on what when you heard both?

Thanks for responding!

 

[VintageFlanker]

First: ASR does have a quote function.

But that's part of the quality the DAC gives, not just the digital voodoo but the quality of the analogue too.

And that's precisely what we are measuring here.

you also know these hifi-nerds get to listen to dozens of different dacs every month so, they'd notice and tell some differences (hopefully).

They listen to dozens of DACs, fully biased (both confirmation bias + influence of the manufacturer/dealer sending the product) with not any care for proper controls. Nothing relevant to me.

It means like, after the piano tuner does the Steinway for Vienna Philharmonic, they play some arpeggio all over and the Golden Ear points, this one, E-flat-6, it's 3 cents too flat. Basically I have freaky superhearing. Perfect pitch and adjectives to describe what I hear. But it doesn't qualify me to know what to do as I begin my journey to try to get some affordable things so the music doesn't bother me when I listen at home.

Wow. Just wow. Before going any further, you should give this a read :

Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You...

www.audiosciencereview.com

OK, why? This one doesn't have balanced output.

Because this is an infinitely better designed product. You're seeking for balanced ? Fine. Schiit Modius, then. Or S.M.S.L D-6 if you look for something cheaper.

A lot of audiophile said I'd like Zen DAC because of R-2R DAC

The iFi DACs you're mentioning are Delta Sigma, not R2R.

I guess I'd ask, when you recommend it, it's based on what when you heard both?

Did, but it doesn't matter at all.

 

[AdamG]

First: ASR does have a quote function.


And that's precisely what we are measuring here.


They listen to dozens of DACs, fully biased (both confirmation bias + influence of the manufacturer/dealer sending the product) with not any care for proper controls. Nothing relevant to me.


Wow. Just wow. Before going any further, you should give this a read :

Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Because this is an infinitely better designed product. You're seeking for balanced ? Fine. Schiit Modius, then. Or S.M.S.L D-6 if you look for something cheaper.


The iFi DACs you're mentioning are Delta Sigma, not R2R.


Did, but it doesn't matter at all.

Congratulations, You have hereby been Nominated for our “Most Optimistic Supporting Poster” Award. Upon final selection for the award, you will receive an all expenses paid trip to the “Golden Ears Technical Institute of Sound Imagineering and Believe Based Sonic technique indoctrination”. Upon graduation you will be recognized as an expert among our most renowned and celebrated “Golden Ears Club”….complete with a Lapel Pin and Acoustic enhancer Android Ear kit. A smoking jacket may be purchased for a small fee….

 

[Lexxie]

First, I have no idea what kinda weirdies you get here. Or how you use terms or such. So, in an internet world of weird anonymous freaks with braggy egos I had no idea that "golden ear" would hit a trigger. I meant to say, I have good hearing, if you sing a song I'll tell you every note you're sharp or flat, OK? I'm just sharing what kinda person I am so that when I ask advice, someone in the crowd might relate to me and say the right things that I know it's the person I trust in how they answer.

I completely trust what I hear more than graphs and reviews and to be brutally frank, someone who can't sing to please a crowd. Their synapses aren't trained right in my perhaps rude opinion.

However, I have to pick which things to buy based on not hearing, so you can guess, I'm trying to do what I can to poke and elicit out information. Birds of a feather quack together, someone might start talking in a way that I know they have good hearing too, that's all I'm trying to do, is pick products a little less blindly.

The “Golden Ears Technical Institute of Sound Imagineering and Believe Based Sonic technique indoctrination”, really, doesn't exist, let's go Zoom and random tones and you pick out with perfect pitch the exact tone and tell it's flat or sharp. No, you are utterly cluelessly confusing me with someone else, it's easy to confuse people on internet so no worries, I'm not angry. I just want to appeal to any musician-types over nerd-types in this community so that I can get opinions closer to mine.

What I am looking for is not to prove to unknown people I have freaky good hearing. What I'm looking for is, I have a budget and my research on products I never heard suggested what I think I might like more, is a more natural analogue sound, i prefer a little more aritificial glow any day over an artificial fake clarity, so my lazy research suggested I should get these iFi things so now I'm looking for someone musical, such as, you ever made money doing music and know you're good at it, to give me advice, but all advice is welcome, I put it in a big mixing pot and try to decide.

 

[VintageFlanker]

weird anonymous freaks with braggy egos

Speaking about yourself, perhaps? Last time I checked, you're the anonymous here. It would be plain wrong to call both our respective ASR memberships to be any kind of "equal" (A quick look at numbers may give you a clue).

What I am looking for is not to prove to unknown people I have freaky good hearing.

You don't have to prove anything. I cannot care less, nor I believe your ridiculous claims anyway.

What I'm looking for is, I have a budget and my research on products I never heard

So far, you're the one who asks and I am the guy who answers. I did heard these products and gave you my suggestions. You're right to ignore them.

Anyway, that's enough. Not interested into a pissing contest with a random, just arrived, disrespectful and ignorant member (not to mention that you obviously landed in the wrong forum).

There's also an ignore function here, that my be useful for both of us.

Bye.

 

[BDWoody]

I'm just sharing what kinda person I am so that when I ask advice, someone in the crowd might relate to me and say the right things that I know it's the person I trust in how they answer.

I completely trust what I hear more than graphs and reviews and to be brutally frank, someone who can't sing to please a crowd. Their synapses aren't trained right in my perhaps rude opinion.

You've gotten some time off, during which I hope you can either do more reading around here to get a better feel for where you are, or find a forum where you are much more likely to find people who 'say the right things' to reinforce your mutual unknowable wonderfulness.