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ifi Zen CAN Review (Headphone Amp)

cheapmessiah

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No, you're not the first to mention noise going away once RCAs are connected. I fear many or all Zen Cans have improper grounding plane. You connect 4.4mm which is balanced and does have ground pins, but you still end up with ground loop using a balanced DAC.

Either
-your connection to the d10 balanced is troublesome and lacks proper grounding
-zen can itself has a serious grounding issue
I just unplugged the USB from the SE DAC while the amp is on channel 3, pentacon is plugged in, RCAs are plugged in to SE DAC (while it is off), and the noise came back.

Did the same for the SE DAC power supply, but keeping the USB of this unit plugged in and no static noise came, so y guess at the moment is that there is no ground connection on the Zen Can at all.

I dont know if its a requierement for a balanced connection that both devices being connected are grounded individually tho.
 

LaL

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Im having some issues with my zen can and cant tell if its my unit or if the amp design is the problem.

Under this specific conditions i get a lot of static noise on the right channel of the SE output:
-No signal coming into the amp.
-Pentacon input plugged in (to D10 balanced).
-Nothing plugged on RCA nor 3.5mm.
-Channel input 3 is selected on the amp.

If anyone is willing to test this on their unit you might need to rise the volume quite high to hear ir.

The static noise stops the moment I either unplug the pentacon cable from the amp or if I plug either of the RCA channels to a single ended DAC (it doesnt even need to be on).

Also, if the pentacon cable is plugged in conecting to the d10 balanced, but the DAC is off i get lots of static noise on channel 3 (the balanced one), but, if i have a SE source plugged in thrugh RCA, if the source is off the channel is completly silent. Could this mean that the pentacon cable i have is shorted in some way? Is the how balanced connections work when theres no signal on them?

If anyone has seen any of my other posts, yes, i'm having a bad hifi week.

For me, I'm still not sure if was my cheap pentaconn cable or the 4.4mm socket on the back being a bit tight because it was new. Try plugging the 4.4mm in really hard about 10 times, pushing past the point where you think it's already fully in. For me the buzzing ground loop happened because the 5 poles were not lined up correctly. If you listen, as you very slowly plug in and plug out the 4.4mm you can hear the bussing coming and going.
 

cheapmessiah

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For me, I'm still not sure if was my cheap pentaconn cable or the 4.4mm socket on the back being a bit tight because it was new. Try plugging the 4.4mm in really hard about 10 times, pushing past the point where you think it's already fully in. For me the buzzing ground loop happened because the 5 poles were not lined up correctly. If you listen, as you very slowly plug in and plug out the 4.4mm you can hear the bussing coming and going.
I did have that problem, and its separate from the one i'm comenting, you can have both problems at the same time but having an incorrect pentacon connecion will generate much more noise masking the noise from the problem i'm having, which happens regardless of proper pentacon connection.
 

cheapmessiah

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Been playing with this for a couple hours and found out that the amp can be grounded by connecting the sleeve of any of the RCAs of the zen can to the shielding of a USB cable connected to my computer, dont know if its relevant that both the D10B and the usb cable which shielding im using for grounding are both connected to the same computer.

So i guess i'm going to DIY a cable to get that done since once the connection is made the amp is dead silent.

Sorry for double posting, realized i was doing it after hitting the post reply button.

EDIT: actually it seems like any ground will work, so the easiest ways to do it are plugging the 3.5mm input to any grounded 3.5mm socket available (i've tried my monitor and any of the 3.5mm sockets on my PC), or plugging any RCA input to any other devices RCA that happens to be grounded, in both cases you only need the sleeves of the connectors so you can cut the other conection wires to avoid any signal input into the amp.

What kind of monkey tested this device and didnt realize that? or was it decided to leave as is regardless of the design error?
 
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odyo

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the ifi Zen CAN balanced headphone amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $150 from Amazon including Prime shipping.

The design is identical to new line of budget products from ifi:

View attachment 143296

No, it is not just the pictures. The silver labels on brushed metal are almost invisible. I literally had to tilt the unit, changing lighting, etc. to see what they say. I suppose you get used to it after a bit but still, should have used black ink.

The back panel is unusual in that it provides another 4.4 mm socket for balanced input:

View attachment 143298

I didn't have an adapter for that kind of use so I limited my testing to RCA in. Power is provided by a Chinese generic 2.5 amp power supply and not the usual ifi one. Cost pressure and or requirements for voltage and current must have pushed them in this direction.

From what I recall, this is a discrete implementation so will be nice to see how it performs relative most of the market which uses IC opamps.

ifi Zen CAN Measurements
I used the lowest gain setting of 0 dB as that allowed unity gain for both unbalanced and balanced output for the dashboard. Let's start with unbalanced:

View attachment 143300

Distortion is at -100 dB which dominates SINAD. Interestingly it did not change when switching to balanced:

View attachment 143301

What is there is respectable but pretty far short of state of the art we see from other companies:

View attachment 143302

Signal to noise ratio is very good at unity gain:
View attachment 143303

50 mv output performance is above average but again, lags state of the art products:

View attachment 143304

So very sensitive IEMs may generate audible noise if you play above 84 dB.

Frequency response is flat and good:
View attachment 143306

As we have seen before xBass provides significant amount of boost and extends to nearly 500 Hz. Would be nice to see such a boost but limited to 50 to 60 Hz where it is most needed for many headphones. Make it adjustable and you have a winning feature. As it is, it either works or is too much.

Someone mentioned measuring crosstalk and they were right:

View attachment 143307

This is quite low for an amplifier. There is strong capacitive coupling between the channels. Would like to see this improved by 30+ dB, not for audible sake necessarily but for engineering excellence.

Channel matching was not great with disturbances early and going past my 0.5 dB threshold before a lot of attenuation:

View attachment 143308

Fortunately you have the 0dB setting for gain which should help you keep the volume from being too low.

The main theme of company's promotion is availability of power so let's start with 300 ohm unbalanced and then balanced:

View attachment 143309

View attachment 143310

Wow, in balanced mode this thing pumps out serious amount of power! My requirement here is 100 milliwatts and the Zen Can sails way past it in balanced mode to 645 milliwatts. And while distortion is not yet again state of the art, it is good enough to be competitive and not an audible concern.

Switching to the other extreme with 32 ohm unfortunately changed the picture fair bit:
View attachment 143311

View attachment 143312

I suspect the design is current starved as we can see it get worse as impedance goes even lower:

View attachment 143314

Ifi Zen CAN Headphone Listening Tests
It is a gorgeous day here with blue skies, temperatures in 70s F and little humidity. This apparently enticed my XLR to unbalanced headphone adapter to take a walk so my testing is limited to using balanced output of the Zen CAN only. There, I started with Sennheiser HD650. I am telling, this thing can pump some serious power into these headphones. Play some techno music with heavy bass, turn up the volume and your skull may literally shrink a millimeter or two after being pounded in the middle by this headphone and amp combination!!! The sound is powerful, detailed and with no hint of distortion I could detect.

I was very surprised how much performance dropped when testing with my Ether CX 25 ohm headphone, again in balanced mode. Turn up the volume past moderately loud and the sound starts to get distorted. Turn it up a bit more and bass notes cause momentary muting, and distortion is abundantly audible. Now "normal" listening may be before all of this happens but still, I would not recommend low impedance headphones with this amplifier.

Conclusions
Despite paving its own path here, ifi gets a number of things right. Price is very attractive for balanced headphone amplifier. Feature set is very good. Most importantly this thing produces a ton of clean power into high impedance loads. Down sides are poor crosstalk, and inability to drive low impedance headphones well or at all.

I am going to give a conditional recommendation for ifi Zen CAN for high impedance headphone use only. It is one of the best in that category if not unique with the incredible amount of power it has together with balanced I/O and multiple gain settings. Outside of that the weaknesses of the design stand out too much to recommend over many other alternatives.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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What would be the potential benefit using 4.4mm balanced connection between dac and zen can ?
 
D

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I'm new to ASR so, sorry for asking this here. Does anyone here know anything about the ifi zen dac v2?
I recently got the magni heresy but after experiencing *very* bad customer service from schiit, I no longer want to get the modi, and I'm looking for alternatives. Thought about getting the atom dac+ but with shipping and taxes it would cost the same as the zen dac v2 which is more flexible connection-wise, has truebass and could be used as an amp for my sensitive iems. Only thing stopping me from this purchase is not knowing if it's good as a dac. I tried apple dongle and Fiio K3 line out as dacs with the heresy and I still heard some noise in some songs though I'm not sure if it's just the recordings. Does anyone have any opinions or experiences?
 

Veri

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I'm new to ASR so, sorry for asking this here. Does anyone here know anything about the ifi zen dac v2?
I recently got the magni heresy but after experiencing *very* bad customer service from schiit, I no longer want to get the modi, and I'm looking for alternatives. Thought about getting the atom dac+ but with shipping and taxes it would cost the same as the zen dac v2 which is more flexible connection-wise, has truebass and could be used as an amp for my sensitive iems. Only thing stopping me from this purchase is not knowing if it's good as a dac. I tried apple dongle and Fiio K3 line out as dacs with the heresy and I still heard some noise in some songs though I'm not sure if it's just the recordings.
The ifi dac won't yield you any less noise, it's not exactly the quietest. Atom DAC actually seems like a good choice, their customer service is also top notch.
 
D

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The ifi dac won't yield you any less noise, it's not exactly the quietest. Atom DAC actually seems like a good choice, their customer service is also top notch.
I know that the atom DAC is one of the best DACs to get. It's just for everything else the zen dac beats it for my uses. I can buy it locally so I get it faster, and warranty is more convenient (taking it to a 5 min away store instead of shipping).
Truebass and more connection options. I can use the zen dac as an amp dac while simultaneously feeding the heresy. It's just more versatile and practical and I don't mind coloring the sound a bit because I don't think I'm going to notice it (can't notice a difference in sound between fiio k3/apple usb C dongle/motherboard DAC).
Only thing I'm scared of is the noise. The noise I heard wasn't loud and it was only in some tracks and only when I turn the volume up. I like to listen to some tracks in high volume and while the noise isn't loud, it's just annoying like a tiny scratch in your foot that you can't get rid of.
I really hope that someone who tried both DACs can share their experience as to how they compare in the noise-department.
 

LaL

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I'm new to ASR so, sorry for asking this here. Does anyone here know anything about the ifi zen dac v2?
I recently got the magni heresy but after experiencing *very* bad customer service from schiit, I no longer want to get the modi, and I'm looking for alternatives. Thought about getting the atom dac+ but with shipping and taxes it would cost the same as the zen dac v2 which is more flexible connection-wise, has truebass and could be used as an amp for my sensitive iems. Only thing stopping me from this purchase is not knowing if it's good as a dac. I tried apple dongle and Fiio K3 line out as dacs with the heresy and I still heard some noise in some songs though I'm not sure if it's just the recordings. Does anyone have any opinions or experiences?

The V1 and V2 sound exactly the same, I had both of them for a month.
I would just get a used V1 or an open box from Amazon, you still get the 30 day return policy with Amazon Warehouse Deals.

U.K. £125►https://Amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listi...efix=iFi+ZEN+DAC,aps,52&qid=1643134315&sr=8-4

Germany 135€►https://Amazon.de/-/en/gp/offer-lis...efix=ifi+zen+dac,aps,41&qid=1643133658&sr=8-2
 
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The V1 and V2 sound exactly the same, I had both of them for a month.
I would just get a used V1 or an open box from Amazon, you still get the 30 day return policy with Amazon Warehouse Deals.

U.K. £125►https://Amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B091B2JCXQ/ref=sr_1_4_olp?keywords=ifi+zen+dac&crid=30YCCUUSOH65F&sprefix=iFi+ZEN+DAC,aps,52&qid=1643134315&sr=8-4

Germany 135€►https://Amazon.de/-/en/gp/offer-listing/B07YZK5MDS/ref=sr_1_2_olp?keywords=iFi+ZEN+DAC&crid=22LIQ422XHMA5&sprefix=ifi+zen+dac,aps,41&qid=1643133658&sr=8-2
These links don't deliver to my country, but even if they did I would have to pay taxes and it would end up being the same price as a brand new V2.
Thanks for the suggestion though. I will check if there are any second hand V1s locally.
 

odyo

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I find this too, it really is great not to have to open EQ software. The XBass is actually quite subtle and really enhances headphones like the Ananda and HD600 without having to EQ them.
Yes. It's almost unnoticeable if the song doesn't have lowest frequencies. If the song has it, Xbass unlocks the sub bass reproduction with these openbacks. It's gentle and good.
I wonder if the amount of bass boost is affected by the impedance of the headphones. Ananda 25 ohm, HD600 300ohm. Did you notice any difference ? Although HD600 probably distorts a bit.
 

odyo

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I will give you a trick: if the sensitivity of your headphones is 93 dB/mW:
  1. 1 mW will get you 93 dB SPL.
  2. 10 mW will get you 103 dB SPL.
  3. 100 mW will get you 113 dB SPL.
  4. 1 W will get you 123 dB SPL.
In a few words, every increase in the order of magnitude in power will get you 10 dB SPL. I use the baseline that any capable amplifier for a specific transducer should give me at least 120 dB peak SPL, so for the example case, I would get at least 1 W of power since this covers any high-amplitude transient at a pretty elevated average listening level. It is unlikely that you find this, but it is headroom just in case.
I don't get this concept. I don't know if i should open a new topic or just ask here.
Now the music has peaks and dips which means unstable power requirement but amp outputs fixed power. How this all works ?
Let's say we have 1w output when volume knob is maxed but 100mw output at 12 o'clock. If i set it to 12 o'clock amp gonna output fixed 100mw right ? then how peaks and dips in the music will be handled ?
In this review Zen Can has 116mw at 0db gain volume knob maxed unbalanced but 463mw at 0db gain volume knob maxed balanced. How this works ? They output same volume(db) but different power ?
And what if i listen at 60-70db ? My 103db/mw Ananda will require almost no power.
 
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staticV3

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I don't get this concept. I don't know if i should open a new topic or just ask here.
Now the music has peaks and dips which means unstable power requirement but amp outputs fixed power. How this all works ?
Let's say we have 1w output when volume knob is maxed but 100mw output at 12 o'clock. If i set it to 12 o'clock amp gonna output fixed 100mw right ? then how peaks and dips in the music will be handled ?
In this review Zen Can has 116mw at 0db gain volume knob maxed unbalanced but 463mw at 0db gain volume knob maxed balanced. How this works ? They output same volume(db) but different power ?
And what if i listen at 60-70db ? My 103db/mw Ananda will require almost no power.
The Amp will only put out 100mW with a full-scale, continuous sine wave. The peaks and dips that make up your music will be reproduced by your DAC and amplified by your Amp.
 

odyo

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The Amp will only put out 100mW with a full-scale, continuous sine wave. The peaks and dips that make up your music will be reproduced by your DAC and amplified by your Amp.
This is not really the answer i'm looking for but thanks.
 

Jimbob54

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Cisco150

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Yes. It's almost unnoticeable if the song doesn't have lowest frequencies. If the song has it, Xbass unlocks the sub bass reproduction with these openbacks. It's gentle and good.
I wonder if the amount of bass boost is affected by the impedance of the headphones. Ananda 25 ohm, HD600 300ohm. Did you notice any difference ? Although HD600 probably distorts a bit.
I would like to know if the bass boost did anything to the Ananda
 

odyo

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would you say i could do the same with Peace EQ stuff
Yes absolutely. Xbass is good for simplicity that's all and you don't have to use any software, preamp etc. It can work with exclusive modes of Tidal or other apps.
EQ APO is better. You can shape it how you like. You can also fill the dip in 1.5k region and tame the 3-4k area.
 
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