Emotiva A100 has a very high noise floor for me on both HD6XX and T50rp. I don't know if it is just me got this problem because other people still talks about this amp like it is not broken, or probably I can't get it to enough volume to let the noise floor go away.
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iFi Pro iCAN Headphone Amplifier Review
- Thread starter amirm
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Me too!
Been looking at this thing more and more in images. I really love the look and the dial indices of this thing for example. I take back what I said about the face lift. They should keep it, but just update some of the connectors (keep the same amount, I like the symmetry and just all the knobs and shit).
This thing in it's stack looks so niceAnd looking over some of the features and wealth of connectors - I actually feel like getting one..
I am also a fan of the way it looks, and so far haven't had any problems with it in close to 4 years.
I did get it for about $500 less than the usual cost, bought it as a package with some Audeze LCD-3f headphones, came out to about $1200 each.
I know, still pricey, lol.
They should keep it, but just update some of the connectors (keep the same amount, I like the symmetry and just all the knobs and shit).
This thing in it's stack looks so nice
I don't quite get what you are trying to say? "Update the connectors" - what is that supposed to mean? The connector layout has been explained here and apart from a 4,4mm jack, there is really nothing you could add, change, remove or update without losing functionality or symmetry of the design.
Also I don't get why everyone is so impressed by how good the stack looks. I mean it's certainly a matter of taste, but to me it looks pretty standard or 0815 as we would say in Germany. I say this taking the price into account, not comparing it to devices that cost a fraction of the price.
The thing is with people saying "update it", "match others in performance". If I recall correctly this design uses no integrated circuits within the signal chain, so no OpAmps. "Simply" improving measured performance to the level of some other amps, comes with some extra challenges in a completely discrete design. Not saying it can't be done, just saying it will probably be more expensive than this one if someone does it.
The Benchmark HPA4 is $3k and from what I understand they have no trouble selling them at that price. Expecting it at the $1800 price point is probably a bit unrealistic.
Tom
Does the type of volume control in HPA4 cost more than $100, in parts? What would be the price increase over the ALP pot used in the iFi?
Edit: As JohnYang1997 mentions below, "Schiit Ragnarok is 1499"
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Schiit Ragnarok is 1499, just for reference.
Interesting, so Schiit use a motorized Alps RK27 in combination with a microcontroller that reads it's value and controls a relay based stepped attenuator accordingly. Never thought about that option. You need the microcontroller for remote functionality anyway and you get the motorized pot and the feel of an Alps RK27. Ragnarok is a big integrated amplifier, so space isn't as limited, but in usual Schiit manner, they still put it on a raised daughterboard.
If you are wondering about BOM cost, in quantities around 1000, your average DPDT signal relay is around 1 USD on average I think, some are considerably more expensive, some are cheaper. 0805 precision thin film resistors can be had for about 5ct in larger quantities, potentially less. Then consider the number of channels, the number of steps, add a microcontroller and either a pot or rotary encoder. The math is relatively easy. BUT having a resistor ladder means you will need more board space, board space (especially on a 4 Layer board which you will probably need depending on how dense your design is) will cost money, having many different resistor values means it will have more total parts, increasing assembly cost. Also the use of daughterboards means more PCBs and interconnects requiring manual assembly. Then there is the issue that using many parts likely increases your capital commitment and capital cost....so basically what I want to say, it's not only the pure cost of the parts that plays a role there.
HPA-4 has 256 steps, Schiit has 128 steps. Just to add to that comparison.
If you are wondering about BOM cost, in quantities around 1000, your average DPDT signal relay is around 1 USD on average I think, some are considerably more expensive, some are cheaper. 0805 precision thin film resistors can be had for about 5ct in larger quantities, potentially less. Then consider the number of channels, the number of steps, add a microcontroller and either a pot or rotary encoder. The math is relatively easy. BUT having a resistor ladder means you will need more board space, board space (especially on a 4 Layer board which you will probably need depending on how dense your design is) will cost money, having many different resistor values means it will have more total parts, increasing assembly cost. Also the use of daughterboards means more PCBs and interconnects requiring manual assembly. Then there is the issue that using many parts likely increases your capital commitment and capital cost....so basically what I want to say, it's not only the pure cost of the parts that plays a role there.
HPA-4 has 256 steps, Schiit has 128 steps. Just to add to that comparison.
DEXCOM7
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And I almost bought it, until I found from research and others here, that the HPA4 internally is very similar to a 789 or 887.
How can I justify buying the HPA4? Yes the touchscreen is very nice but if we are talking aesthetics here, the HPA4 has not caught up with time ether. The "extras" do not justify the price for me. I went for something that fit's my needs, I happily pay the 1799.
bidn
Active Member
While with the THD+N @ 300 Ohm test the HPA4 leaves the iCAN Pro in the dust,
with the THD+N @ 50 Ohm the iCAN Pro seems a little better.
With the THD+N @ 50 Ohm, I see on the graphs:
The iCAN reaches -110 dB at 10 mW, and then about -112 dB at 25 mW while the HPA4 reaches -108 dB (0,0004%) at 10 mW, -110,5 dB (0,0003%) at 20 mW and then -114 dB (0,0002%), but only at 60 mW.
Going now to the faintest power, at 10 µW the iCAN is at -82 dB (= 0,008%), while the HPA4 is at -78dB (0,012% ).
Given the linearity of the curves between 2 µW and 12 mW, this means that in that interval the iCAN's curve's is below that of the HPA4, i.e. the iCAN has a better THD+N there, but only by a few dB, for 50 Ohm transducers.
As the impedance increases, the opposite happens (since at 300Ohm the HPA4 crushes the iCAN, which becomes dirtier and start distorting heavily at an early stage). Nevertheless the iCAN is cleaner for low impedance transducers at low volume (until 12mW), which is quite nice.
with the THD+N @ 50 Ohm the iCAN Pro seems a little better.
With the THD+N @ 50 Ohm, I see on the graphs:
The iCAN reaches -110 dB at 10 mW, and then about -112 dB at 25 mW while the HPA4 reaches -108 dB (0,0004%) at 10 mW, -110,5 dB (0,0003%) at 20 mW and then -114 dB (0,0002%), but only at 60 mW.
Going now to the faintest power, at 10 µW the iCAN is at -82 dB (= 0,008%), while the HPA4 is at -78dB (0,012% ).
Given the linearity of the curves between 2 µW and 12 mW, this means that in that interval the iCAN's curve's is below that of the HPA4, i.e. the iCAN has a better THD+N there, but only by a few dB, for 50 Ohm transducers.
As the impedance increases, the opposite happens (since at 300Ohm the HPA4 crushes the iCAN, which becomes dirtier and start distorting heavily at an early stage). Nevertheless the iCAN is cleaner for low impedance transducers at low volume (until 12mW), which is quite nice.
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DEXCOM7
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Indeed and is twice the size. Which fro some could be a problem... Me
So far I am very impress at the performance I am getting out of the pro. The ability to switch cans and IEMs without having to have several amps in my desk has been very useful.
On the other hand it render a lot of my equipment useless. No more Loki needed and I took the Saga S out of the chain. I also noticed that the iCan Pro just does not like the Fulla 2, it sounds like garbage at medium gain.... To much hizzzzz.... So that one is out of the chain...
Thanks for this review @amirm; I've been waiting for an objective view on this amp for a long time. It's the one most often shown on forums and social media as being the top end or 'grail' setup, but once again such a device has been exposed to be sub standard for the money.
This is the nail in the coffin for iFi for me. I already had a bad experience with a portable amp of theirs. I think they put on a good dog and pony show on their website with slogans, feature names and jargon (read bullshitting) but here the amp clearly comes up short. It's becoming clearer by the day that the 789 AAA THX is the amp to buy, especially at the new selling price.
This amp is a pass for me, online stack photo bragging rights be damned!
I like these component systems more than anything iFi sells lolReminds me of those mini component systems from the early 80s
DEXCOM7
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That's quite interesting. Not worth the debate though. lol.
Keep enjoying your THX.
The relays are $3-4/each even it higher quantities. I'm assuming they're using 0.1% tolerance resistors as well. While they've come down in price, they're certainly not free - even if you buy them in reels of 5000.
Tom
Noted. What I was hinting at was at this high price for the unit, charge $100 (or whatever the number is, not free) and have zero channel imbalance issues.
Funny. Because if they were to do that, the first complaint would be that their box is too expensive.
That said, they should be able to afford an ALPS RK271 "Blue Velvet" pot.
Tom
That said, they should be able to afford an ALPS RK271 "Blue Velvet" pot.
Tom
Funny. Because if they were to do that, the first complaint would be that their box is too expensive.
That said, they should be able to afford an ALPS RK271 "Blue Velvet" pot.
Tom
I dunno $1799 is already in expensive category, as it is. Too expensive for many, already...
Anyway the (cheap!) SMSL SH-9 nails things properly regarding channel imbalance...
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